Canada’s AI Future + Data for Good with Taleeb Noormohamed

0:00Check one, two. Wow, Allan, this sounds great, my friend. Welcome everybody. Thanks for being here tonight. You're at Vancouver AI community meetup number 32. >> Who's Who's been here more than one time? [applause] >> That's about 70% more than one time. That's pretty amazing. Um, thanks for being with us here tonight. I'm very excited. We got an interesting show tonight. We've got the data for good society who's brought a whole host of their data volunteers who's been working with nonprofits in all sorts of interesting ways. So, you're going to hear a whole bunch of stories um about how our best and brightest are uh volunteering with nonprofits to help them transform their data and bring them

0:40into the AI age where Gord's going to enlist our support to help kind of take them into the the next part of the journey. So, I'm really excited about that. Uh member of parliament Taleeb Noormohamed has come tonight. No slides, no notes. He's going to talk from his heart and then we're going to have a conversation. I appreciate you, Roman.

0:57Thank you for making this happen, sir. Um, [applause] we have a thriving community, so we're going to hear from a bunch of our different subgroups. We're going to do a little report outs tonight. This is a great chance to network, get to know people, share who you are with folks. We've got all these cool subgroups, and that's where the real work happens. Um, I'll get into more of that later, but enjoy yourself tonight. Make sure you meet some new people, get exposed to some new ideas, and I hope you leave charged up. So, with that, I am going to welcome Vanessa from the Squamish Nation. Uh, Vanessa and I have first met each other on Tribal Journeys 2014,

1:32where I was a safety boat captain for the Squamish Nation, and she was one of the um, road crew. But, um, Vanessa, I'm just going to throw it to you at this point. [laughter] >> Hey, welcome. [cheering] >> [applause]

1:53[applause] >> Sorry, Garrett. I had Maka up there on the photos, but uh next month. >> You can have one if you'd like. >> Sure. Hot squaks.

2:11My ancestral name is Chiolo and I come from the Seymour Reservation over across the water here. I just want to thank Chris for inviting me over once again. Um the last few times I shared some stories and um today we're going to we're going to share two songs. um one from where my partner is my partner his ancestral name is Lash um and it's the unity song um and we're going to share that to open up and then I'm going to share a song a family song for mine and I'll I'll give a little bit of explanation um after we sing the unity

3:03Hey. Oh. Hey. Oh. Hey. Oh.

3:18Oh hey oh hey oh hey oh

3:39hey oh Hey, oh hey oh hey oh hey oh

4:10hey Oh.

4:20[singing]

4:28Hey. Oh. Hey. Oh. Hey. Hey. Oh, hey. Hey. Hey.

5:02Oh. [singing] Hey. Oh.

5:12[applause]

5:17Awesome. [applause] This one.

5:28National CMC. It's a privilege to be here with my partner to do the opening here. It's good to see a lot of these faces. And um a little explanation about that song. It comes from Stalis, but a part of where my family comes from. It's uh it's a a song that brings the people together because there's nothing stronger than the power of togetherness.

5:55So we share that song to bring the people in to show the strength and the medicine where it comes from [snorts] the cows. Our drums are are medicine for the people. We use it for a lot of things. So that's a little explanation about that song and it comes from uh the one that created that song. His name is Cinchian and uh he comes from Jahalis. His uh his name is Frank Leon and that's uh the explanation of the unity song and we use it for a lot of things for the people.

6:30You see him? I see him. So um last time I shared a story about how um where our people um came from and how our people ended up on the island. Um this time I'm going to share a family song. And this song um the women sing and the men dance and this is how um the women in the village would choose their husbands.

6:59So it all depended on what the woman wanted. If the man was strong and he danced strong and he jumped high and if he was fast or if he was slow then you can catch him. [laughter] So this is how the women chose their their mates for life. Um with this song um when we have big gatherings, it's called Clintit. It's a dear song.

7:27She already caught me so I don't have to dance. [laughter] Yay! Yay!

7:49Yay! Yay! Yay! Yeah, yeah, yeah.

8:07[singing] Y

8:20yeah Yeah. Yeah. [music] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

8:50Clity.

8:55>> [singing] >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

9:09[singing]

9:16Yo yo y yeah [singing]

9:31[singing]

9:42Clinty. >> [applause] >> So, so when the men are dancing to that, they have to keep up. The song will go really fast and really slow and then it'll slowly speed up and the Clinty they jump like the deer jump when they're jumping over things. Yeah. So, thank you. >> [applause] >> Well, thanks again for being with us here and I just really appreciate you like taking us on a journey. Had fun talking to you in the back where you're like, "Hey, shared the creation story.

10:19Now I want to share this other uh story." And so I really appreciate um Garrett to come and participate and stuff. Thank Thank you very much. And congratulations on your new business. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh Vanessa's got a new um traffic flagging company. What do you That's what you call it, right? uh my my company I discussed my very first time here I I uh announced a company that we're working on called Shaw Wals and it translates to the people's path and part of it is traffic control and part of it is cultural awareness and cultural safety training and that training can be applied in in any situation in office setting in the construction world um in

11:02schooling um basically anywhere to kind of teach people um about who we are and what we've been through and why um sometimes we react the way we are and you know what where we're trying to be. >> Well, if I was starting a business today, I'd probably make sure that all my operations had AI right at the center of it. And there's probably a lot of people in this room who want to help you out with all that. So, uh starting a new uh indigenous traffic business. Uh yeah, cool. Thanks for coming and being part of all this. Yeah, >> it's show off. Yeah.

11:34>> Shaw. >> Yeah. Sh. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. [applause]

11:44>> Well, for me, and I know for a lot of you who come on the regular, starting off that way really means a lot. It kind of gets us all on the same page. We come here with like, you know, busy lives, busy heads. The world's moving faster than it ever has. And, um, this is just a real good chance for us to kind of push the reset button before we go on a little journey together. So um thank you very much again Vanessa. Next slide. So out of this event BCAI nonprofit started. We are a nonprofit professional network of like 300 AI professionals here in the province who are working in all sorts of different industries and

12:18disciplines. Um and it's been amazing. Today's our one-y year anniversary. We launched one year ago tonight. My parents were here. Remember Joss was here from Philadelphia. like a hundred of you guys signed up that night. And over this last year, you know, we've spun out all these um subgroups, you know, we've got the life sciences group, the education group, we've got the founders and funders startup community, all sorts of cool things going on. Um so if you are not a part of what we're doing, I should get a clicker, Alan.

12:47Um hit it. >> Oh, thank you. That's handy. >> Oops. So, if you're not a part of us and you want to join up, um this is how you do it. It's an annual fee. You get access to some private group chats. You get discounts to our certifications, our workshops, our meetups, all sorts of stuff. And like I said, there's um pretty much like weekly events going on right now. And that's where the real work gets done. We'll tell you more about that later.

13:17Where I've been doing the real work lately has been on this future proof festival. So many of you know out of this community and out of our subgroups. I've had a vision for an avantguard ideas and culture festival of the future related to AI and it's happening. I've got 20 speakers coming in internationally including some of the like most interesting and important people that I met along the way. Like I used to be the photographer for the TED talks and I was the photographer for an event that preceded the TED talks as well. So I spent my 20s and 30s in the front row of the floor of the best events in the world listening to gurus

13:48fill my head full of all sorts of interesting ideas and knowledge and I connected with many of them became friends and so I'm inviting a lot of those people back. The 20 or so people that are on the uh flyer so far a lot of those people are from out of town. This is Joss from Philadelphia. She runs a journalism um charity in America that gives ways $und00 million a year to people. There's Phipe from the Meta Creation Lab for Creative AI who's going to be doing a performance. This guy, I know a lot of you know him. He's a freaking international rockstar. Phipe up there. He's playing for 6,000 people in China this month. He's playing a big

14:20show at a music conservatory in Korea this month. He's he's a big deal. Um, Amber Case and I used to run cyborg camps in the early 2000s where we got people together to talk about augmentation of our memory systems of our like how many augmentations do you need to get before you become a a cyborg? Is it just like a pacemaker? Is a pacemaker and a hearing aid? What if you have a second brain notion website?

14:45Are you a cyborg now? Like uh she very This lady right here runs innovation at the Buckminister Fuller Institute in San Francisco. She's coming up. Um, she revolutionized the fashion industry when it came to sustainability. Very interesting person. Brewster Kahle started the internet archive, billionaire philanthropist, runs the internet archive, the internet archive Canada and the Wayback Machine. He's coming up giving our opening keynote.

15:07So, I'm offering up the best of what I got to everybody. I hope you can. A lot of you guys have already signed up um tonight. Today only, if you sign up before midnight, I'll give you two tickets for one. So, you can bring a friend or your family or a colleague or something like that. So, today's the day if you're going to sign up. Um, the price went up a little bit since I said that a month ago. I I we did nine people bought a ticket the last night I did this two for one. So, anyway, two for one um for the future proof festival.

15:34It's going to be awesome. Just so you know, like about the money part, uh my costs are about like 300 bucks a day. We're going to feed everyone meals. We're renting the space center. I'm flying people in internationally and stuff like that. So, that's where the numbers come from. You know, we didn't just like make this up. And also like um you guys know we're like a grassroots community funded member-driven organization which means I don't sell you to sponsors. That's not who's paying for the conference. This is us coming together to do a thing. So if you want to be a part of it, thanks for getting early Hassan. Um that's how you do it. We need you in the room.

16:06Especially the most critical and skeptical people, Liz Marshall. [laughter] You know, those who have the most concerns, the most like uh uneasiness about the way things are going. Don't abdicate your seat at the table. We need your critical voice there, right? So, uh, that's going to be, I think, as you guys know, every AI conversation that we're part of tries to push you into one camp or another, usually the boosters or the doomers. Are you totally down with this? Get on board, loser. You're going to be left behind. It's inevitable. Or are you in the like, you know, uh, pearl clutching, uh, AI is ruining our brains, taking all our water, we got to resist

16:44and protest it. Like both of those things are can be true at the same time. We can be curious about the transformational power of this stuff and also holding big tech companies, governments and corporations to account about how they roll this out and and and asking to be a part of it and asking to do it in a way that isn't Silicon Valley's way of doing but is BC's way of doing it. So anyway, that's what we going to be talking about at the future proof festival. [applause] Thank you for my coming to my commercial.

17:14Uh, I believe in this stuff. So, that's why I actually I'm pretty shy and bashful about selling to people directly, but because I believe in this stuff so much, I'm able to stand up here and be like, "Yo, sign up for the thing. It's going to be amazing." Um, with that, I'm going to turn it over to Gord Hamilton here in a second. Gord washed up onto our shore like about a year ago, and he runs the data for good society and he's brought a lot of Who's here from the data for good society tonight?

17:39Like 10. Gordon. Yeah. Nice. Good job, man. data for I'll let him tell you everything, but what I want to say is about Gord. He is a Get on up here, sir. He is a sweet, generous, hilarious, humble man who has invited many of us into their community to talk and give keynotes um and share. And then you've brought the best of what you have as well into our community. And so, thanks for arranging this tonight and pulling it together. Um I'm excited to see what you guys get up to. If anything up, don't worry, man. It's going to be all good. It's an interpretive dance.

18:10So, >> as you wish, sir. Okay, without further ado, Gordon Hamilton and his crew. >> Crew. >> Thank you. Uh, [applause] where's the crew? There we are. Great. So, I I don't know if you know, this is going to be uh what's called a Petraucha presentation, which means it's uh we're going to try to stick to 20 seconds for each slide. and uh we've memorized about a third of them.

18:41So, we'll be glancing at our notes at the screen down there. But, uh yeah, it's basically just talking about where we've been for the last couple years and uh where we hope to go. Uh I I might check >> two. Hey, remember how I promised you a really good video back that your organization could use to bring in nonprofits and stuff like that?

19:03>> Never look back. >> Come here, guys. Come up here. See this nice light spot? >> This is where we're gonna hang out. Oh, yeah. You feel? [cheering] >> Yeah. Welcome to the party. Your video is going to be great. Here's your second microphone. >> Oh, thank you. >> So, let's let's get in order. You just come here >> and then we can just move down and we can see it then when it comes up. Okay.

19:28So, let me introduce the folks starting from that side. Fraser. He's been with data for good for six, seven, something like that. He's with the uh a large bank in and uh Davided uh has joined us the last couple years and is uh leading several projects and Amanda is amazing. She's until this PowerPoint thing. Uh, but she's uh Yeah, there we go. Okay.

20:05[cheering] To be her vindicated. Yeah. So, I just I do want to say that Amanda has been fantastic and she she leads the project lead teams. [laughter]

20:22>> Okay. [screaming] [applause]

20:31I can hold my notes down here as each of you does it. >> Okay. So, I don't think we're going to have notes, so I'm just going to start. Okay. >> Can we go back? >> Oh, just wait a second. >> Go. >> Okay. So, hi, I'm Gordon Hamilton, a chapter lead at Data for Good Vancouver.

20:53We are a community of volunteers dedicating our professional data skills to nonprofits at no cost. We recognize the NPOS's need data expertise but can't often afford it. So we fill that gap. Did I mention yet that it's free? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So DGO is a Canadian nonprofit with 10 chapters. This only shows nine, but Winnipeg just joined, so that's great.

21:23>> Yay. And uh we have about 60 volunteers managing 15 active projects, and we have 1,700 volunteers on the waiting list. 1,700. >> It's crazy. And so there's 3,000 nonprofits in the Lower Mainland. So we we just have to match them up. Okay, so our volunteers are data scientists, analysts, developers, career transitioners, passionate about giving back to their community. Prospects, oh, sorry, in the light. Prospects are three to six months with dedicated teams, bi-weekly meetings, etc., etc. And

22:09so we have two types of customers if you think about it. We have our volunteers and we have our nonprofit clients and they're they both mean a lot to us, right? We're helping the the volunteers, they need Canadian experience or they they want to give back to the community, etc., etc. Learn some new stuff and the nonprofits have unsolved data problems.

22:31So, we connect the dots for everybody's mutual benefit. Okay, I think I'm only two behind. >> [laughter] >> No. Hey, one behind. So, our mission is simple. Empower nonprofits to unlock the value in their data without affecting their budget. Remember, free. They hold the deep subject matter expertise and the passion to change communities. We bring the technical frameworks to let them scale effectively and safely.

23:06When we talk about becoming AI ready, organizations aren't starting from the same place. Some have dedicated technology teams, mature platforms, and room to experiment. Others are working with a much tighter budget and capacity. And that starting point really changes what responsible AI adoption can look like. should have something that licked my finger for me to be much more efficient.

23:42[laughter] That probably came out wrong, but uh back to the talk. So, we want to be careful not to generalize because obviously there are nonprofits doing incredible work with AI already, right? Uh but many of the organizations that come to data for good have limited technical capacity like their staff are experts but it's difficult to just add data to someone's side of their desk right so for us the question isn't simply what could AI do here rather what could this organization this NPO realistically adopt and sustain Ain the solution still has to work within their budget, people and technology and their capacity to maintain it after our volunteers leave. That's the tough part, right?

24:46Adding to the technical infrastructure constraints is the critical need for strict data privacy. I I hate it when people start laughing and I haven't told the joke, but I think I'm just naturally humorous. So, that's good. [laughter] These organizations handle sensitive, vulnerable human data. We can't just toss it into public LLMs. We have to navigate strict data sovereignty constraints with zero margin for error.

25:20Data silos exacerbate the constraints on the non-private infrastructure and the privacy. Of course, a single organization might have five different funders and that creates incredible pressures on them, right? Because they've got they got a five masters in essence, right? So that makes it difficult to see the big picture. For nonprofits, trust is the currency. In our 8 to 10 years, data for good finally found it.

25:55So we were arguing whether we've been going for eight or 10 years. So [snorts] I had to say that otherwise Fraser was going to say haha. [laughter] Uh sorry in our eight years data for good has earned credibility so that our new clients can be confident that we will protect their community data. Now with AI we face new challenges. Of course every day it's it's different.

26:21So ultimately we enable our clients to harness their fragmented data and report their true value to their funders. May not be obvious, but when they can definitely prove their impact, they secure more funding, right? They prove their effectiveness. It's a direct pipeline to community good. And here is Hammanda with her PowerPoint skills to tell us a few story about how that works.

26:46>> THANK YOU. >> [applause] [cheering] >> SO LET'S START in Vancouver downtown inside. The Overdose Prevention Society has been working for several years tracking data every day, tracking every visit. So they have the data, they understand their community. What they didn't have was the capacity to turn this data into something they could actually use.

27:19So data for good helped digitize those records and turn them into something visible. And one finding was very incredibly powerful. So despite hundreds of people visiting the site every day, no one has died there in one year. So suddenly their data became something they could use for a devocacy and this brings us to AI. So in 2018 volunteers manually work through the data to find patterns and insights.

27:56Today could AI help an organization like this analyze large volumes of data faster while still protecting their highly sensitive community data.

28:12First United has been supporting vulnerable communities in Vancouver for more than a century. They have been hearing again and again the renovations were contributing to BC's housing crisis. But knowing something is happening on the ground and being able to prove its scale are two very different things. I think I won't have time to tell jokes.

28:36So we helped build the VC eviction map, >> a tool that turned individual experiences into visible evidence across the province. So the data helped expose the scale of landlord use evictions and that evidence even contributed to the conversations around changes to the BC residential tenency act. But here's a question for this room. So this project only worked because we found a volunteer with the right skill set to build something sustainable for the organization. But could AI now help those solutions to build solutions like this faster? And could we do that without creating tools that nonprofits can't afford or maintain?

29:31So that's my project. So, I know about this one. Special Olympics BC noticed something very concerning. At 13 volunteer participation has been declining for six years. They knew something was changing, but they couldn't see where the drop offs were happening. Which communities were most affected or what might been driving the pattern. So we combined 400 survey feedback with several years of volunteer participation until we got much more specific. So where were people dropping off? Which communities and programs were recovering and where was retention still a problem?

30:14So that gave Special Olympics BC a much clearer picture of where to focus the engagement efforts. But could AI take this further? So instead of only seeing participations decline, could we identify early signals that someone might disengage? And when we're working with data about athletes with intellectual disabilities, how would we use those predictions responsibly?

30:46But sometimes the problem is much less glamorous. So, Family Services of Greater Vancouver came to us with critical operational data spread across 49 spreadsheet tabs. So, staff were spending weeks pulling everything together for reporting. Valuable time spent instead of supporting their programs. So, our volunteers brought that data together, clean, standardize it, and they built an automated pipeline. So once the foundation was there, building the power vi dashboard was the next step was an easy thing to do. So reporting that used to take weeks could now update automatically. And I think there's an important AI lesson here. The foundation came first.

31:38So when an organizations like this says we want to use AI, our first question pro probably shouldn't be which model. It should be are you ready? Is the data reliable? Are the processes clear? Who will maintain the solution? Sometimes the most valuable thing we can do is get them ready for AI first.

32:01And here's the V. [applause] So, thank you, Amanda. All right. So, uh I'm going to talk about a a rural healthcare division of family practice that pinged uh data for goods website earlier this spring to ask help them track medical staff across a large geographical area uh helping manage shortages, severe shortages of doctors and nursing uh to help advocate for provincial health funding.

32:35So towards this we developed a data model and in easily maintainable Excel wet spreadsheets to support dashboard visualization of medical staff so they could see the gaps in their data as well as gaps in their staff. Uh most importantly they didn't just hand over we didn't just hand over a tool we're mentoring the staff in how to own the capability themselves.

33:00So they enjoyed the process of transforming their Excel sheets into visualizations uh illustrating their critical staffing situations to their executive and now they're considering how AI can help in optimizing availability and credentials forecasting seasonal surges and balancing workouts to reduce burnout. So obviously a big uh importance here in Canada. Um, another organization we've been in touch with in 2026, uh, we started helping a nonprofit organization dedicated to ending genderbased violence. So, this organization has been supporting battered women and their children through transition houses and other programs addressing violence, trauma, poverty, and homelessness since the 80s.

33:49So the transition houses have critical incidents sometimes which can be suicides, overdoses, fires, breakins, any number of things. Anytime these critical incidents occur, they need to be logged uh documented, reported internally and possibly to the province of British Columbia through standard forms. And moreover, there's insensitivity to the residents and the staff that needs to be handled uh privately. and their privacy concerns need to be considered in uh handling all of this data. So there's a backlog of many years of uh critical incident and employee incident investigation report forms stored as PDF and word documents all requiring manual processing. So multiple staff members would uh in order to complete these would email these things to and fro and we've uh been

34:38trying to help them. So our solutions thus far use a Python notebook-based ETL pipeline to ingest the backlog of critical incident forms, a database to simplify querying, and a dashboard tool for uh generating statistical summaries. Uh future work is going to include automating and simplifying the form completion so we don't have to have emailing documents to and fro. Uh and also extending some of this to other categories of forms they handle.

35:09So the question to this audience then in 2026 is how could we have used AI systems to help us out with this? Uh there's significant highly sensitive privacy concerns that we have to respect and we're not entirely confident of our ability to use off-the-shelf AI tools. Uh we have very capable data engineer volunteers that were very carefully screened, but everything was still built by hand. So the question to you all is how could we have are there better ways we could have approached this. So with that I'll pass over to Fraser. Okay.

35:47[applause] So uh we are thrilled that the scope of our projects has been growing over years as well. For example, the folks at Pivot Earth who are here tonight came to us with a massive challenge. They needed a highly specialized team to assess and map food resiliency and agricultural assets across the uh Fraser lowlands.

36:14Now, based on the pivot team's requirements, our recruitment team solicited our 1,700 volunteers to find the right people with the modeling and spatial uh mapping uh skill set. So our team quickly identified them, vetted them. We have uh five people now working on the project that just kicked off this week. Now um you know there are obvious areas where AI can help analyze massive data sets related to climate, crop yields, supply chain logistics and model vulnerabilities.

36:51Um the team is hoping that a food flow diagram will help uh pinpoint gaps and single points of failure so that we can help government and investors make critical decision better decisions about food security. So last year um we partnered with an organization called Converge and Converge is made up of 100 organizations from across the country to launch a national mental health data thawn. Our goal was pretty ambitious. Uh we wanted to prove that ethical cross- sector data sharing could safely break down data silos and completely transform mental health delivery in Canada.

37:35Now the uh the logistics were pretty brutal. We convinced nine organizations to share their information. We spent months sanitizing that information uh and for strict Canadian only data sovereignty and did this on practically zero budget. So despite those massive hurdles >> up to 600. >> Okay. Yeah. We we had 600 volunteers from across Canada show up for uh uh this multi-week data thon and um in the end um we showed that it worked. So next slide.

38:14So you know um we proved that secure multi-organizational data could be shared that there is value in sharing that we could do it safely and the insights generated from that effort actively influenced national mental health uh policy. So we proved that strict privacy and rapid innovation can go together. Now 600 analysts is not super sustainable.

38:44uh can't do that every every a lot of work went into to setting that up. So um you know if we were to do that again we'd really need an AI solution to help us do that more efficiently. Um but you know how do you do that? How do you clean highly sensitive uh data using AI?

39:05Um you know deploy deploying Canadian LLMs um doing it safely and doing it for little to no budget. And so we didn't come here just to talk to you about the things that we're doing. We actually came with an ask. So, you know, our volunteers excel at uh data modeling and analytics, but to take these nonprofits to the next level in an AI era safely and effectively, we need some some help and and some best advice on how to approach that.

39:42So uh some of the questions uh that that we have is you know how do we architect highly secure privacy first AI solutions that require limited budget and zero technical staff to maintain the solution after our volunteers have left. Our uh our second ask if we just go back for a sec previous slide. Yeah. uh is really how can we use AI to help us prospect for new clients? Gordon mentioned that there's, you know, 3,000 nonprofit organizations. We have 1,700 volunteers.

40:22How do we find those organizations that are ready to work with us where we can kind of jump in and help them right away? Um, if we can use AI to do it, then that means that's less volunteer time going out and prospecting these different different clients. The third thing is we have these volunteers. Hopefully we have more nonprofits to do business with.

40:46How can we intelligently match up the the volunteer with the right skill set to the right organization so they can start to deliver value right away? >> Awesome. Thanks Frasier. Thank thanks data for good peeps. [applause] So, I first want to point out that these questions are not rhetorical. Like, they're they're asking. This is amazing. This I'm bursting at the seams. Come here, guys. Let's let's talk.

41:17They just showed us that they're involved with front lines organizations that are facing pretty much every important thing in the province. They said housing, uh, overdose prevention and drugs, mental health, food security, um, I'm sure I forgot one, but those are pretty much like >> Yeah. gender based violence. Yes. Yeah. >> You know, supports for people with developmental disabilities, like everything.

41:43>> Amazing. Amazing work, guys. Yeah. >> Also, I got really excited yesterday when we were doing a dress rehearsal when Frraasier talked about pointing 600 data analysts at a particular problem. This is where I think we can help. Imagine some sort of a system that we build that can take their 1,700 res volunteer resources and that's just here and start to point them in a focused way at different projects and then move them along so that we can bring our expertise to each one of these nonprofits situate data problems on these questions that he was wondering about. Like how could that work? Like that's that's an amazing data nerd canon, 1700 people that if he can

42:21point them at focused things for a period of time, retain institutional knowledge, then move it on to the next thing. I can't think of a way to have more impact in the in the whole world than something like that. >> And that talks to our second group of customers, the 1700 volunteers, right?

42:36It's real enrichment then, right? Yeah. Then uh it's not just solving a problem. It's giving people a chance to work together, learn together, and build something amazing. >> I told you how conscientious and humble Gordon was. And this presentation I feel like really is example of that. Like these are like worldleading data nerd experts who are coming here being like, "Yo, help us. AI our for these nonprofits so we can have more impact.

43:00They want your help or whatever." Right? So this is the QR code about how to get involved. But we got like 10 minutes here. So does anyone got answers to those questions or questions for them? Offers of support. I got you. I got you. All right. Robert. >> Hi, I'm Robert Call. I'm the founder of Cloud DX. Uh we do healthcare, IT, and uh we use AI for that. And I think that we're actually like like like this is a perfect example, right? So why not create just like you've created different groups for different, you know, specialties create all of those nonprofits have at some level similar problems. fundraising, attracting volunteers, attracting clients, uh data security, data safety,

43:48attracting government support, media relations, >> create different groups that do those things. attract the people who like to do that stuff from this group to start with and then from your 1700 volunteers and then build standard platforms that any nonprofit can use for free that have been vetted that are uh that are bulletproof that are constant and then and let the 1700 maintain it so the nonprofit doesn't even have to maintain it >> or or you know or or one of those groups is the maintenance group develop some sort of internal tools supported by the nonprofit they deploy it different people along the way Taleeb >> so this was great and Well, I get to

44:26speak a little bit more later, but I guess two things. One is uh can we as the M as MPs help get what you do in front of the small businesses and others and organizations, the nonprofits particularly that come to us looking for help? Would that be something that we could help with in terms of matching you?

44:40>> Absolutely. >> And the other and the other is [cheering] for MP offices, which yes, are entirely nonprofit organizations. Um we could really use some help with data and doing better to serve our serve our clients, serve our our constituents. Would that be the type of thing you guys would be interested? Your volunteers would be interested in.

44:56>> Absolutely. >> Humility breeds humility. That's amazing. >> No. >> Hey, what's up, A? Uh, yeah. I was just curious. You mentioned the importance of finding like sovereign LLM providers or local LLM providers. Do you have any Canadian partners that you're working with on this to get access to tools and tooling? >> Uh, not so far. I think we've kind of begged, borrowed, and um I won't say stole, but uh we've used introductory accounts or other things, you know, for smaller jobs. We did have someone that uh participated in our data thon, but it was really uh limited. So having something like that would be super helpful.

45:41>> Yeah, that that's a good initiative that people in this room could probably help out with. We do have access to like the different companies that have tokens and credits and stuff and some sort of grant of credits to you guys to do that work would probably be like a no-brainer or something like that. Steve, thanks Chris. Um, I don't have an AI answer. I have a more human answer. Um, we work with several thousand non forprofits across Canada. We provide case load management software and we do things like you >> What kind of management?

46:09>> Uh, case load management. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Steve, hi Gordon. Um but to to your question there is a ton of them looking for data uh help with data projects uh that they work with uh places like MCFD CBC and stuff like that. So the federation of community service and social services they're great. They have uh over 200 members work with the a lot of the associations that work for these NOS's they belong to these large associations that'll have like a 100 members or 2,000 members. If you work with them they want to do this all the time. They love doing this kind of stuff. I I can provide a whole bunch.

46:41I'll talk to you later about it. But >> scan that QR code right there. >> Yeah, >> I'll definitely talk to you because there there's a bunch of people looking for to do provincialwide Prague pro programs and and and even local city programs. So yeah, I would love to talk to you guys.

46:55>> Sure. Thank you, Steve. >> It actually makes sense because for example, we've been successful with Coast Waste Management Association, which is collection of maybe 200 groups or organizations that you know do composting, etc., etc. So, we did a presentation in front of them and we've got a bunch of uh people asking us for help. Now, once we get in front of them to talk to them, it they start to believe it's possible. But yeah, that so that that would be fantastic. That would be fantastic.

47:29>> Right over here, I got Kawa asking a question. >> Not actually a question, more a comment. I'm a past uh data for good volunteer with uh the the project that debuted. um amazing person uh was on. I want to emphasize also for all of the people in this room that these are just projects actively going right now that like you all could just join to be part of individually and that that is an amazing thing like I know there's a lot of people in this room who are still trying to find their ways in this industry. I know there are a lot of people in this room who are still trying to find their

48:02ways in this province and this country. when they talked about like data for good as Canadian experience that actually exposes you to the work of like real organizations with real problems that is extremely real and extremely personal and like these are wonderful people to work with and for and you don't have and and it it it's amazing like I want you all to not just think about this from the tools and the technology solution but from like working as a person with other people on solving these problems s and being part of the organization here in Vancouver to help these organizations as just a person who wants to make the city better and make your

48:45involvement in this career better is like incredible experience and I highly recommend it even without like knowing the tool solution [applause] >> here. here. I kind of want to make that be like a mic drop moment, but um no, Alex, a quickie and then Harvey a quickie. >> All right. Uh three head headlines with kind of leading questions. Um fir first headline is just reducing toil for your people. So to to what extent are are folks able to utilize something like codecs or cloud code um without obviously feeding like private data into those things but at least to like reduce their toil as they're creating those projects. Second piece is um kind of connecting to something somebody else

49:35was saying, but like get in touch with the like social impact teams or the if you haven't already with these big bigger um companies that are uh providing LLMs and they might actually have grants of tokens and things like that for uh your volunteers to use to reduce that coil. >> Yeah. guys. Yeah.

49:57>> And then the third thing I was going to say is um on that note of social impact like skills-based volunteerism um that I know you're actually looking to solve the other side of the equation, but if ever you need uh more pipeline for um like people to actually come in and like build on solutions for like a hackathon or something um there are plenty of companies I think that would love to do some something like uh skills-based volunteerism. Thanks. real quick one, Har.

50:26>> Yeah. Um, so lots of great uh strategic uh strategy discussion. I'm just going to take it down to a little tactical piece. Um, so [clears throat] one thing that we're talking about is cloud versus onrem, right? So goes to cloud, not private onrem. There's ways to make it private, right? So uh, so one thing that comes to mind is like, uh, having your own a almost like a MacGyver type situation where you're using tokens in the cloud to figure out a lot more of the structure and then taking that um that build and using it locally on a like an a box that might have say Hermes or something on there that's local, >> right? And have it do the processing for

51:14the the private data and then uh and and then you're not burning through tokens anyway, right? Because it's all local. Uh but that might be a way to do it. >> I have this dream of a meshbased inference network amongst us. >> Like you remember mesh Wi-Fi networks? You would put a Moroi router on your Wi-Fi network and you could dedicate 20% to the shared one. It would connect with the Moroi router next to yours and you could provide a free Wi-Fi network based on 20% of your surplus bandwidth to the rest of the world. Like we all have GPUs in our phone and none of them are doing anything right now or whatever. What?

51:51What if they could beorked together somehow? We could be putting loads across like this like you know private onrem shared mesh. Kush, can you help me build this thing? [laughter] >> No pressure. >> So what what you're talking about Chris? Um actually a private firm >> Kevin Friel Mr. Pixel. >> Hi. Um there's a precedent for that. Uh, Otoy has a decentralized uh, GPU uh, renting service um, centered around uh, GPU rendering for uh, 3D and and spatial experience. Um, but there's a framework that has a long-standing well-running precedent. They just don't have enough scale to open it up even further. But there is something there and that is something that has actually crossed my

52:41mind too in decentralizing compute. >> Yeah. like how do we authenticate our phones into a GPU grid or our laptops that are here so that so we can push these jobs out onto those things and then we don't need to like ask for handouts from Anthropic or something like that, you know? Um, does anyone have anything else they have to say before we let these guys go?

52:59>> We need phones that don't break. >> That sounds like a talk. You should pitch it for another time. I like it. >> Bra, you got anything to say? You good? >> Okay. Um, Eileen, I'll be right back with you. Last two questions. Here we go. >> Thanks. Um, I love what you're up to. I think I think it's amazing. And I'm curious. Um, we're we're talking about from the perspective of the builders and the data, who's representing the people that are receiving the service.

53:35>> And and that's the gap that I keep and and I'm going to bring the mom aspect in here, right? I I keep hearing such amazing solutions in this room and in the spaces that actually are the technologists the data the people who are navigating the solutions and then the NOS's that's awesome but who's representing the people and what they actually want right so they need to be included in the conversation somehow and and it takes a lot to come into this space to even say this because I have to I have to fight through my own constraints that have been applied through historical ancestral traumas etc.

54:18whatever it takes for us to be in the space >> to be in this conversation to make sure that we're also thinking about the impacts it's having on the youth right our future the people that are receiving the services like they have to somehow we need to include them in the conversations so I'm curious how we're doing that >> Sarah thank you thank you for that and I'm happy to say that you're going to get a small part of that question answered here in just one one quick second um they talked about the overdose prevention side that they're working with. We're working with Sarah Blyth directly. And I don't want to steal anyone's thunder, but yes. And thanks

54:53for speaking up. Thanks, guys. You did it. >> Yay. Okay. [applause]

55:05>> Awesome. Next one. >> You can go to the next one. >> I don't know. Just see what's next. >> It should It should say community announcements. I'm pretty sure. Oh, I see. Community announcements. >> Um, you know who you are. Simon, come on, guys. The community announcement crew. Uh, Darren Coleman. Uh, Brenda. Good.

55:33Gord, what could you possibly have to say that you didn't just say? Get your ass up here. Uh, come on, guys. There's a couple other people that were on the fence. Will Joe, >> come stay in the light. Yeah, Mauricio, thank you.

55:59>> Is that everyone? Prodal, remember? You remember Pro? What the bro? Guys, come stand close to me in the light. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Uh, next one. Let's see where we're going to go here. All right. Hey, I just wanted to report back on the Internet Archive AI builder fellowship that I stood up here and talked about last month. The $5,000 fellowship that we're giving away money to build some stuff on top of the Internet Archives data. We received 23 submissions. They are in the hands of the archive. I've recused myself from the voting and I will let everybody know by September 1st where the money's going and what we're building and we'll announce it at Future Proof Festival.

56:36Nevin want to do the thing. This guy has become a keynote speaker sensation at the AI film club that we're running. He's been he's been giving a series of talks every single month to build upon each other and they've turned out quite amazing. But um yeah, what do you want to talk about, bro?

56:56>> Oh gosh, what isn't there to talk about? Hi everyone. Yeah, [laughter] not the usual 40 or an hour that I do, right? Uh everyone uh for those of you who don't know BC AI Film Club is the hub for Vancouver and BC for generative film production, animation, all the good stuff that is really on the new frontier and is becoming a really amazing creative outlet and a frontier industry right now. And there are so many things to look at and talk about every month. I mean we covered five new frontier models that came out within two weeks last month. Four of those were open- source.

57:33So, talk about the local gen opportunity and how that democratizes storytelling even further. Oh my god. If you have any interest in the professional creative industries like sound design, video design, animation, special effects, 3D, do not snooze on the AI film club. We we meet once a month. We've been doing it for a year. We've got a monthly prompt challenge. I've even started making animations and submitting them into the challenge cuz it's it's too good to miss. So, there's a real thing going on here. I stand up every month to tell you about it, but plug it into the film club. Thank you.

58:04>> And the growth every month of people who go into the prompt challenge is absolutely amazing. So, September 10th is our next one. Hit it up on Luma. >> Also, like there's a cluster here, guys, between Tiny Ghost, these guys company, Multimodal Media Labs, um, Bono AI. There's a there's a cluster and they meet at the film club. So, definitely uh, tune into that.

58:28Oh, who's here for Mind, AI, and Consciousness? Michelle, hop on up here, but I'm going to skip back to you in a second. Um, we're doing some cool with the mind, AI, and consciousness group. Actually, I'll wait. Will you just give 20 seconds on Macab? >> Sure. >> Well, um, Mac is the mind AI and consciousness meetup. We've been meeting for about two years and uh it explores all of the questions about well how does mind work? What is consciousness? What is AI?

59:00And initially it was just a a a bunch of readings and interesting questions and we would go through point counterpoint but now we're also running labs which is really cool. So, we ran the last uh lab last month and we've got another one coming up and pretty much I I would invite everybody who's ever wondered how the mind works and how AI works and how the interaction between the two in consciousness work to really check it out. It's got a bunch of PhDs there including Suzanne Gilder, including Dr.

59:30Angelica Lim, Dr. uh Loki Jorgenson. It's an amazing group. They've been doing reading groups like they said for two years, but now we're doing labs, which means laptops out building based on all the stuff that we've been to test our theories of consciousness, obviously. Um, next slide. Thanks, Michelle. >> Um, hey, we got a few sponsors. Internet Archive gives us $300 a month. Sons of Vancouver gives us five bottles of vodka every month that we mix into cocktails.

59:55>> And Simon's Company, which he's not here to represent, gives us a,000 bucks a month to just keep doing what we're doing. Next slide. >> [applause] >> Darren Coleman has uh reinvigorated the Suri AI community meetup. He's starting to host it at his office, the Frasier Valley AI community meetup. What's up, dude?

1:00:15>> Thanks, Chris. Yeah, so I'm I'm Darren Coleman and um just a quick announcement. Uh we started the Fraser Valley AI uh meetup. We call it FEAI and it's part of the BC AAI ecosystem. And our first meetup's going to be September 9th and we're actually already at capacity and we have a wait list. Uh which tells us there's definitely a need in the valley. U it's a long drive out here to Vancouver. Uh so if you know people in Langley, Suri, uh Chilowak, uh let them know. Fraser Valley AI, um it's on the BC AI events page if you want to check it out.

1:00:51>> Our SEO is crushing these days. All you have to do is type in like British Columbia AI Langley and all of a sudden our stuff pops up. Hey Chris, thanks thanks for the 30 seconds. [laughter] >> My pleasure, bro. Thanks for being here. Yeah. And and thanks for your generosity. He's opened up his space, feeding the people, doing the thing. I appreciate you, Darren.

1:01:10>> Next slide. Simon, >> we do me first or >> actually we're not going to do you first. Mauricio. >> Mauricio was one of our guest speakers at the last month's event at the life. This is another cool emergence, guys. Like, don't snooze on it. Simon hosts dinner at his house once a month for many life sciences, healthc care professionals that are interested in AI.

1:01:31Hi Mauricio, introduce yourself and talk about the field trip. Good evening everyone. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity here. So two meetings ago, we started with with a discussion with a brainstorm in one of the life sciences group. Uh we wanted to pursue a a local initi in initiative that would generate impact in the community here. So of course front and center came the crisis that we're facing downtown east side and then Gordon was kind enough to connect us with Sarah Ble who came on the last meeting to present the challenges that face at the overdose prevention society and and a lot of aspects of the reality of their clients and also from their

1:02:14frontline staff and that prompt us everyone was really energized really interested and we're just building on that energy by organizing a a visit next week that is going to happen to to their site. They're good. Sarah is going to provide us with a tour and you're going to have the opportunity to understand a little bit more of all this this this the situation and over here in our community right we know we all know how to use a hammer. So, our challenge, our goal for next week is to find a pinpoint that really looks like a a good nail where we can generate the impact. Thank you.

1:02:55>> You almost landed the ship perfectly, Mauricio. Your goal next week should just be to listen, not to find somewhere to put your hammer. Just listen, bro. Just listen. You don't know what's going to happen. Yes. >> Yeah. Maybe they got no nails >> for your hammer. >> I That's That's one thing that Sarah already shared with us. they have and they have a lot. I think that the challenge for us is really is is to avoid solution is really to as you mentioned to to listen to really to understand from a broad spectrum where are the pain points so we can really find this the the the the one where we can generate and you can deliver most

1:03:33impact to the community. >> I appreciate you. Um Mara has been a very close collaborator. That's why I'm teasing you. I'm actually making a point to Sarah right now because I believe this is what you were sort of asking about, you know, is like who's looking after these people? Who's representing these people? Well, Sarah Blyth is representing her community and we're connecting with her and she's invited us in and we're going to go down and we're going to listen.

1:03:53>> I'm cool. >> I can't wait. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Are we staying live? >> Simone. >> Oh, we are staying live sciences. >> How's Who's met Simon? This guy's a character. He keeps inventing that I have to deliver and he's going to tell Simon 40 seconds. McNab McNab McNab them in 40 >> McNab. Okay, so uh guys, I need your help.

1:04:21Uh we've set up this life sciences group. We've got this amazing uh set of projects, but we're going to need some help here. So, as Chris says, I come up with some nuts ideas. And sometimes logic isn't really what you need. Okay? Sometimes you got to do something that's a little bit nuts. And what we're setting up is an opportunity which is represented here.

1:04:45Uh years ago, a hundred years ago, this book was written just over 101 years ago in actual fact. and it celebrates all the amazing things you can do in a day in Scotland. [laughter] We are going to do Ian's charming. We are going to do what >> amazing things you can do in Vancouver and it's extraordinary list. So, we're going to start with this charity event that you guys are going to join and participate in. We're going to start at the top of Cyprus and we're going to ski down from the top of Cypress. All these begin with S, by the way. [laughter] We're going to cycle from Cyprus down to the coast. Then we're going to sail across to uh the

1:05:41other side. And then we're going to swim to the coast. And then we're going to skate in representation of the kucks and what they can do. We're going to skate through through uh West Hastings to East Hastings. And then we're going to going to scooter down East Hastings. And that actually is an adjustment we've made this week to embrace the downtown east side for whom we're going to raise some cash. And then we're going to have supper. You'll be relieved to hear at the end. [laughter] Now the thing that justifies applause is the news today is that Taleeb has agreed to participate in this event.

1:06:24[applause] He he doesn't know it yet. [laughter] He doesn't know it yet. Uh apart from that I also have to talk to him about another project but I think I've run out of my 40 seconds. However, I need your help. I need three of you to step up and help me get this going. I need people to help with the kit and logistics. I need people to help with the safety and the permits. And I need people to help with the concept of the marketing and engagement with the volunteers. You're going to learn earn the money, earn the sponsorship to do this. So, I need three people and you're sitting out here somewhere. Thank you,

1:07:05Chris. >> Amazing. [applause] Amazing work, Simon. Um, so he calls this thing the mcnab after the book. So the mcnab, these things you could do in Scotland in one day it was like hunt the feeasant, shoot a grouse, uh, flag down a stag, catch a salmon. >> You had to poach them. You had the you had to poach them and you had to tell the estate you were going to do it. So, uh, catch a salmon and you can still do this in Scotland if you like. I didn't think that was going to go down quite so well in Vancouver. I think we've got a different set that we can do here, >> but it's got renegade rebellious vibes,

1:07:42which I like, you know. Um, Simon, you did really bad with 40 seconds, but you're you're developing this wild salmon program, and I just do want to have a word about it. People talk a lot, especially in like provincial politics, federal politics, about brain drain. They say, you know, all the good minds, they, you know, right when they get trained up, they leave and go down to America. And Simon's got a bit of a a solution, but also like a counterintuitive perspective on it. And so the idea is, you know, that for our 20 and 30 year olds, if they're into entertainment, moving to LA is a natural probably part of their progression, but we sure would love to have them back

1:08:12when they're ready to settle down and start a company and have a family. Or if you're in, you know, data science, machine learning, AI, you probably want to go down to Silicon Valley, San Francisco, and and do some stuff, but and they're calling this brain drain, but I do feel like it's a bit of like a natural process. And so Sam Simons brought up this idea about like the wild salmon born here, go out to sea, get fat, come back and >> spawn [laughter] here in British Columbia. And this is based on a really well-known Chinese uh government national program called the sea turtle program where the sea turtles leave their beach, they go out in the

1:08:48world, and they come back and lay their eggs on the shore. and and they have programs to incent people with high net worth, great network, success along the way in these places to come back and start up here. Um, tax credits, help programs, funding pathways. I've almost told the whole story, but that's cuz you don't really keep a lid on it. But wild salmon, wild salmon program, Simon, he said it beautifully. [laughter] Uh, but the real thing is that I think brain drain is a good thing.

1:09:18Think about that for a minute. We send people out into the world to learn really interesting stuff >> and meet interesting people. >> Meet interesting people. Bring back developed technologies, companies. What also comes back that the I'm very familiar with the Chinese experience. The what also comes back is the investors which is something we seriously need here. So the growth capital investors come back with the individual. Uh the interesting thing is meds.

1:09:47>> You're doing it again. >> Yeah. Yeah. Don't worry. I'm used to it. Uh meds, medical folks, teachers, they stay. 90% of the ones who are educated in BC universities stay. Science computer grads. Oh dear. >> 80% disappear either out of BC or out of out of Canada. Uh and so we need to put that right. We need to change that. We got amazing opportunity to do it right here. put Vancouver, BC onto the map with my friends in Cambridge, San Fran, Boston, you go. Okay, so that's what I'm really gonna go and talk to him about.

1:10:28[applause] >> He looks so straightlaced and he's a CEO of a pharmaceutical company, but I tell you, man, he's got wild creative ideas and he's a great musician. Thanks for being a part of all this, man. Yeah, I appreciate your support. Will Joe AI ethical futures lab >> try to be uh succinct. Uh we basically want to [laughter] meet every month and talk about how do we apply ethics to what AI can do and what it should or shouldn't do and how do we as Sarah said make sure that everybody is impacted is part of that conversation. So it is policy, it is procedure, it is those sort of tactical things so that uh as Gordon mentioned

1:11:13the nonprofits he works with have frameworks that they can use to maintain private data. So come see us on Sat sorry Tuesday September 1st um Mount Pleasant Community Center multi-purpose room 2 6:30. >> Nice. Thanks Will Taleeb. This group is our like working group. It's a laptops out group. So, we responded to the national AI task force.

1:11:37We we put together a formal letter. It's on the permanent record. Also, right now there's the um inquiry you guys are doing around like AI safety, privacy. So, we've had two workshops already, man. Laptops out. We have a develop policy paper. We're not just filling out the form on the website, man. We're filling that out too. I will. I will.

1:11:52Yeah. And thanks for being here. Like this is his this is your writing right here, right? And I live at Maine and 44th, you know, and that's your writing as well. So, it's pretty cool happening right here under your nose, man. We're responding to that stuff in as organized and formal a way as we can. Thanks, guys. Uh, up next, a Luke and Miami are not here, but Tiny Ghost Studios is running another one of our animation accelerators. This is round five. Um, if you're interested in film animation, you don't know how to start, check it out. It's on our website, but Luca, they're training everybody in our community on AI film.

1:12:28We also have a responsible AI professional certification program that we've been running here. We run it one time. We put 30 people through it. Yeah, a lot of people in this room went through it. Um, this is a chance to study the international frameworks for the deployment of AI inside of our organization. So, if your job at all has to do with like whose neck is on the line when AI gets it wrong, this is where we're figuring out how to deploy it safely, how to uh put in the guard rails, uh really how to think and problem solve around this stuff. It's led by uh Martin Lopatka, PhD machine and learning guy from Mozilla, Sarah Downey,

1:13:01nonprofit AI specialist from Vancouver Island. Um we've got a cohort coming up, but then we're going to do a live cohort as well right before the future proof festival. So if you need letters next to your name to get a job in AI or if you want to learn more, go deeper, this is a great way to do it.

1:13:17Brenda. >> So my name is Brenda. I'm a pitch coach and for any of you who are founders in the room, I wanted to let you know I am doing a free online workshop called free tips founders seeking funding can use to improve their next pitch. It's on Thursday, September 24th. It's at 8 a.m.

1:13:40It might be a little early, but if that time doesn't work for you, the link here does take you to Luma and my other things are on the other times and dates are on there, too. not till November for the one that's in the afternoon. >> Thank you. You're very brave to come up here and pitch your Thank you.

1:13:59Thanks for being a part of all this, Brenda. We appreciate your support. We've been doing a Friday's um happy hour at Friends Quarters. Friends Quarters is just like a local co-working sp space on Hastings. They've invited us in. So once a month on Fridays, we get together. We have a lot of intellectual as you can guys can tell. We we go deep here, but this is just like drinks on a Friday afternoon once a month. Come check out >> Chris. People are asking if anyone is able to come to that.

1:14:22>> Yes. Anyone's able to come to all our events. There's always members discount pricing, but everything's open to everybody all the time. >> That's it. >> Pro um we ran four hackathons last year. We gave out $12,500. Uh Proal got nominated into our hack hackathon hall of fame for winning second place in every single hackathon that we had last year.

1:14:48>> [applause] >> Um, Rival Technologies is a local company from Angus Reed family and they provide data and surveys and they give us our unique data and then we build kind of cool storytelling on top of that. So, Proall handles our hackathons and I just wanted you to mention that there's a hackathon coming up at future proof and then maybe share your news.

1:15:08>> Uh, yeah. So Chris has been mentioning that he's going to be running like a new round of hackathons from Rival Technologies and yeah, so I'll be like in charge of like the GitHub and like trying to like uh get it going and all that >> and the Discord. So that's something I'm looking forward to. And I guess uh news personally uh I got into a engineering physics program at UBC. It's like a [cheering and applause] ju just let me hype man you for one quick sec. Um validictorian of his high school big leader in the knowledge society the best youth activity thing going on around here right now and um you went to Langer this year toled up

1:15:48and got into his number one program engineering physics at UBC. I'M SO [cheering] [applause] >> Thanks Chris. >> That's it man. We just wanted to celebrate you bro. Yeah. Um, like I don't know if you guys remember like 3 years ago, one of our first meetups, he brought his Jarvis, which was a uh like a Siri connected to his baseball cap that had AI on a um on a on a Raspberry Pi that could like, hey, what am I looking at? You're looking at a room full of people. He built like a full-on futuristic Iron Man Jarvis style assistant like two and a half years ago um with open source hardware, open source software. Good job, buddy.

1:16:30>> [applause] >> Okay, >> the moment we've all been waiting for. Taleeb, come on up, sir. Um, I've said a lot of things already, member of parliament for our writing. So, you probably don't know this and I don't know if it's actually true, but I call you sometimes the number two most powerful man in Canada when it comes to AI and uh innovation. And that's because he is the parliamentary secretary for AI innovation federally. Um you and I got to go to Minister Solomon and Minister Mark Miller's AI culture summit in B. Um you were there with Telus announcing the data centers in Vancouver during web summit. He's um finger on the pulse and hand on the bag of a lot of stuff that's

1:17:11happening here um when it comes to AI and innovation in Canada. So you're welcome to introduce yourself. Maybe I got some questions after that and we'll just kind of get a chat going. Sounds good. Well, thank you Chris. Thanks everybody for being here. I think you have my slides.

1:17:29>> [cheering] >> email. I'm sorry. [laughter] >> I'm not kidding. >> I haven't uh I was I was supposed to do a comedy show tonight, so that's that's what I'm here. Um look, I have no slides. I have no notes. And I'm not going to tell you about our government strategy. Um, [applause] but we do need to have like a real conversation about where things are at.

1:17:55So, let me tell you a bit bit more about myself because I think it'll help situate the thoughts that I have around how we get some of this right and how we actually start to build some prosperity around this, but also do it in a way that that makes real sense for for future generations. Um, so I come from a family of creatives. My parents are architects. My sister's an architect and a painter. Um, I have grown up um surrounded by creative people around um lots and lots of tracing paper. For those of you that are under the age of over the age of 40, you'd know what that is. Um, these guys have no clue

1:18:34what I'm talking about. Um, and there has always been an underlying sense of valuing creativity, intellectual creativity. uh the arts uh performing and of course uh visual. So when I started to build tech companies, my parents were like, "What the is this guy doing?" Right? Like that's where I went to university. I pretty quickly figured out I was never going to be a doctor. I was not good enough to be premed. Um but I was interested in two things. I was interested in being an entrepreneur and I was really really interested in public policy. And so I ended up going into a PhD program at Oxford in human geography looking at migration and started my did my first startup there

1:19:22and was determined to raise capital in Canada and this is to what Simon was talking about it and I'm going to get to this whole AI story in a second but I think it's important for you to understand where I'm coming from. This was 1999 and I was trying to build what you 99 2000 build this really cool startup which was the first real online marketplace for e-learning real e-learning system that would help connect teachers from around the world to students. It wasn't about making money. It was actually solving a real world problem. And we just could not raise capital in Canada. My company got acquired. I ended up moving to Silicon Valley, almost became employee number five at a

1:20:07company called X.com. Those of you over the age of 40 will also know what that is. But because of 911 and visa issues and divine grace, I ended up coming back to Canada and ended up going into government for a number of years. Came back, became the vice president of the Olympics in Vancouver and then had the entrepreneurial itch again. got back into building tech companies and had the chance to get involved with a couple of very very large global players. One of which was VBO which sold to Expedia, helped build a company called Farfetch and thought all of this is great but what am I doing to give back? And how do more people who come from a background

1:20:44who actually understand technology are in government where some of the major innovations are not understood at all by people who are leading public policy discussions? How do we make sure that people who have actually had to build companies and are entrepreneurial but also understand the value of the creative sector are actually doing this stuff in public policy? So, I decided to run and and here we are. Um, after we got I got elected the first time, I was the parliamentary secretary for Canadian Heritage, which meant I spent a lot of time with the creative community. And one of the last things that I had to do when I was parliamentary secretary for Canadian Heritage was try to explain to

1:21:22people how we were going to regulate AI in a world where we were building the PL. We were flying the plane as we were building it. And the most honest answer I could give then is the same answer I'll give now. We're only scratching the surface of what is possible. And to figure out exactly what we are regulating and how we are regulating it is actually a fool's errand. So the question becomes how do we actually think about the role that AI should play in human life? What is responsible use?

1:21:58How do we spur innovation? But how do we make sure that that innovation does not compromise what is fundamental to who we are, our values as human beings. And that is the debate and that is the discussion that is actually happening in classrooms, at dinner tables, around the cabinet table, in our ministry every single day. How do we get this balance right? You have the US model which is innovate at all cost. The Chinese model do whatever the hell it takes. the Europeans who have regulated this thing to the point where innovation is now not happening and we have to figure out where we are somewhere in the middle and the added complexity of course is that raising capital in this

1:22:39country for early stage companies raising capital for companies that want to grow is a pretty awful thing to do right every single company I've had to raise money for I have done outside this country I've done in the US I've done in Europe I've done in Singapore I've done in China I've done everywhere else as have many in this So we have to change that. So part of my job and part of what I wanted to talk about today is how do we actually use this moment, this AI moment for Canada where we have incredible innovation, incredible research and subpar to be charitable adoption and subpar literacy as a moment to catalyze two things. one doing this the right way

1:23:24and ensuring that we are attracting capital in a way that does what all of us want to do which is to build a very very strong sovereign AI universe in this country where we have sovereign data where we have sovereign technology frankly and we are actually building real worldclass companies attracting worldclass talent to this place where people want to live ensuring that the next phase of startup entrepreneurs who build the next multi-billion dollar business, build the next one here. And the people that spin off from there, build here because we all know what happens. If you leave and you build a business, nine times out of 10, you're not coming back because you're going to

1:24:03have your exit somewhere else. Your network's going to be there. Your um employees are going to be there. They're going to make money and they're going to do their next startup there. And Canada loses. Our job is to make sure that that doesn't happen. If there were ever a moment right now where the world is saying to us, we demand of you that you do this in Canada, it's now.

1:24:20And so when we think about what's happening with this trade war, when we think about what's actually happening around the world, the world of AI, the world of technology, the world of innovate, digital innovation, the world of quantum is converging in our backyard here in British Columbia, here in Vancouver in a very, very intentional way. It is up to us as entrepreneurs, as creatives, as government, as investors to not screw this up. And I say this because I'm not just saying this as a politician whose job it is is to make sure that we get this right. It's somebody who is at my core an entrepreneur who will go back to building companies when I am done in

1:25:04politics. and getting the ecosystem right and the work that is happening in this room right now among all of you and among others is I think the most important work that can happen. It is this determined sense that we can absolutely get this right. But there are real policy conversations that are happening and the work that I know Chris you just talked about is going to inform that. How do we think about the responsible use of AI? How do we make sure that kids and by the way at home right now uh one of my wife's best friends has their 18-year-old 17-year-old son at our place right now and I told him what I was doing tonight

1:25:42and he said, "You know what you don't understand is most people my age hate AI. They hate what it looks like for our brains. They hate what it means to our personal lives. We abhore the idea of AI chatbots driving our friends to suicide and we're really concerned about what it means for our future employment. This 17-year-old gave me a schooling on the way out the door today, right? And so I'm asking this question of myself on the driver, what the hell am I going to talk about tonight if not that? Because if the next generation for whom we think we are building this technology in order to make a better planet are turning around and saying to us, "Guys, you got

1:26:19to get this right." That's a question we have to be able to answer. And so the work that you guys are talking about up here that you were just saying hugely important. We have to be able to figure out exactly what it is in our policy framework that is going to encourage the responsible, productive use of AI that does not replace human imagination, that does not replace human creativity, that does not replace our sense of what is right and wrong in our values, but does not at the same time inhibit the human imagination from using AI to do really really great things to improve the quality of life of people. Right? If we are doing this right, we are using AI

1:26:59to build stronger systems to improve healthcare, to improve the way we think about taking care of our planet, to think about how we engage with others in a meaningful way. If we do this wrong, the consequences, I know some of you were telling me outside, the consequences are quite real and I think we all see it. So for me this is as much about listening to the questions you guys are going to ask me I presume and helping me take that back because we are in a world right now where there's a bit of a race to how much can we do how quickly can we do what is it that we are actually trying to do is all coming

1:27:32together at a time when the global environment is really also trying to figure this out and we don't have all the answers as politicians and nor should we right industry should have answers civil society should have answers the private sector the public sector That's where the answers reside in what we should actually be doing to underpin all of the technical work that is happening, the innovation work, the research, the academic work that is happening around this country and here particularly in BC.

1:28:04But I would end by saying this. When we think about what we actually want to do as a country in this field, I think the submissions, the thousands and thousands of thousands submissions that we got, there were some unifying threads which I will share with you. The first that everybody almost everybody I don't say everybody because some people were like never do this. AI is terrible. Um, but most people said, "Look, if we're going to do this, let's do this right and let's do this in a particularly Canadian way. Let's innovate. Let's big build thing build big things, but let's not lose sight of the fact that this is actually supposed to serve people and

1:28:41not vice versa." That was I think a common thread. The second thread that we hear is that let us make sure that our young people do not lose the ability to engage with one another as human beings where their point of interaction is not a chatbot but actually another person or people that we don't lose our sense of common humanity inside a screen. That was the second thing that stuck with me. The third is let's use this as an opportunity to innovate and build some really interesting things. This is the one industry where Canada can leapfrog the rest of the world because of the capacity, the intellectual horsepower that we actually have here and equip us

1:29:22innovators to do this government. Equip us with the compute power that we need with the access to the people that we need to be able to do this because the market is there. We just need to be able to have the tools to be able to do this. And the final thing that we heard was that there is a willingness to trade on win at all cost for win the right way. And that's really interesting because if you look at where the world is today, you look at what we're dealing with with our friends down south and you look at what's happening in other parts of the world, win at all costs actually doesn't really work. And

1:30:04it certainly doesn't work in a space where collaboration um in an ecosystem where collaboration where innovation and ideiation among people actually seeds the best ideas and yields the best outcomes. You need people to be able to collaborate. You need countries to collaborate. You need businesses to be able to feel like they can share information and share um share best practice, share intellectual property or trade intellectual property in an ethical, responsible and secure way in order to be able to build newer and greater things. And so what I take from that is that we can't do this in a bubble. We can't do this in isolation. I mean, Evan has said this before that um that sovereignty is not solitude. You've

1:30:47heard the prime minister also say this, but sovereignty matters. Sovereignty matters because it gives certainty to our innovators, our researchers, to Canadians, that when they share something, when they put something into the cloud, when they put something into the world that their privacy, that their rights, that their creativity, their their work product will actually be protected. And that's on government, but it's also on all of us to make sure you're pushing us to do that.

1:31:16So the world is really our oyster right now. I mean the how we choose to engage with it is up to us. But rooms like this to my mind the more that this happens around the country the better sense that we will have because this isn't actually a binary conversation. Either we do AI or we don't. Either we build data centers or we don't. Either we do this or we don't. It's actually about how do we find the right way to mediate this debate and mediate mediate this space so that we do actually bring the best of what we already know in terms of what has worked and what has not. Use the examples of the rest of the world around

1:31:49where there has been success and where there has been failure and apply it to the lessons that we need to learn and the the problems that we actually need to solve in this country. There are markets around the world in Europe, in Asia, the Middle East that are saying we want to see how Canada does this.

1:32:04We're prepared to wait for Canada to lead on this. We're prepared for we're prepared to work with Canada to invest in Canadian sort of approaches to this because those approaches and approaches in our thesis and I'm talking about the Norwegians here, the Finns, the Swedes, um the the Imiratis, the Pakistanis, >> the Germans, Australians, the all are coming to us and saying, "Guys, get this right because we'd love to do what you do. We'd love to learn from you. We'd love to partner with you." So that's for all of us in this room to take up. And I think, you know, quite frankly, if we actually do this correct, there is nobody that can stop us because we have

1:32:39two things going for us right now. We have the smartest minds in the world and we have massive, massive political capital in the world right now. That is up to us and up to all of us to deploy. So, I'll stop there, Chris. >> You're not going to stop. We're going to keep going. Thank you very much, man, for your thoughts. Thanks for [applause] >> I have no gotcha questions for you, but I do want to dig into this stuff. Right.

1:33:02So, we're at risk of losing the social license possibly locally as it relates to this good stuff that you're talking about. And I actually maybe believe that's why you're here is because there's like a >> a talk going on in the world about data centers. And there's a talk going on in Vancouver about data centers. And and the talking points from those two groups are are actually pretty parallel even though the situation is a little bit different. So, I'm pro data centers.

1:33:22>> We need them. >> We need to build them. We can build them in clean, green, just, indigenous owned, hydro powered ways that represent our values like you're talking about, open source, distributed. >> How do we talk to me about this thing? How do we kind of like um how do we engage a lot? I think a lot of people in the protest and resistance movements, their fears are valid and their arguments are dumb.

1:33:45I don't expect you I don't expect you to agree with that but there the how do we engage with this moment such that we don't lose the social license to do this stuff roll out AI >> and get the benefits that you're talking about. >> So I think we are losing the social license.

1:33:59>> I do too. >> I think we are losing the social license and I and I think that in some cases it's justified. Right. Building data centers at all costs at whatever cost to rateayers at whatever cost to the environment is absolutely wrong. It doesn't solve long-term problems. that's going to cause us a whole bunch of grief later. So, you do have to think about how you build these things, right? You do have to think about the new technologies. And Wafer, by the way, is a BC company that's doing some really, really >> amazing $300 million funded three weeks ago. They're doing water reuse and heat recapture inside data centers. Correct.

1:34:30The Telis plan mentioned these things, but it didn't name a vendor, and they could actually be the vendor. >> Exactly. Right. So, they're Canadian, they're innovators local that are trying to solve these problems. We have to and that's not a plug for wafer. It's a plug for literally the fact that this could be >> local innovation solving the big international data center problems right here.

1:34:47>> And so right and so for us right like the thing to think about is I don't love the idea of my constituents coming to me and saying hey we don't want a data center in a background that the federal government is backstopping unless I can say to them handtoheart here are the benefits to our community. here are the risks that we're managing and here's why this actually makes sense for us and I think that's how responsible governments municipal provincial and federal and by the way we are going to be coming out with AI guidelines for what it means to be able to build data centers I mean that's going to be a federal thing that

1:35:20that comes out as some as some guidelines >> we also have some guidelines coming out from our nonprofit about if you want to build a if you want to build a data center in BC here's what we would like to do >> send them send them to me because we have to be able to say to people if we're going to do this it has to be done the right way, you have to feel good about it. Like, if you're building something in my backyard, like let's let's make sure that we're working together to understand what it is. And and I think in order to to get the social license back, we actually have to

1:35:45have an open mind. We have to hear the concerns that people have. We have to respond to those concerns in a thoughtful way. And then we have to see where we go. But we can't just pretend we don't need them because we do need them. So, um I just want to touch on the cultural thing for a sec. when we were in B or whatever, you know, and so Minister Mark Miller was there, Canadian Heritage, Minister Evan Solomon was there, uh, AI, and the two guys were working together to figure out how we don't leave the cultural class behind as we train on all the copyrighted data of mankind and then we provide this amazing

1:36:15machine to the world and it's like, so talk to me just a little about the state of that currently. I'm actually haven't heard much since they talked about convening their council of cultural producers in Canada. Um, what's up with all that? So there is a few there obviously a few live conversations going right now. One is um how do we get that the consultation process is underway? A lot of a lot of very interesting work going on. Um and it's a long conversation right like because you actually have to think about one how are you compensating people for their creative work that is going into these LLMs. Do you compensate people and if so how what does that compensation look

1:36:51like? How do you make sure that we understand what the differentiation is that the creative sector can feel good about? There's a lot of disagreement among the associations themselves. So, we've got a lot of work to do, but I think within the sector, there's a lot of work to do to help kind of figure this out.

1:37:05>> How do we have long conversations when shit's moving this quickly? >> Well, the problem, look, I always say to people, it's better to take a little bit of time and do it right than to do it wrong and do it fast, right? Because if you do it wrong and do it fast, it's very hard to move back from. And when you cut the deal that seems most expedient in this moment with the LLM or with whatever you know whatever Google coming to your door and saying hey listen we're prepared to do X or Y. If you do it today for the problem that you think you have today and you haven't thought about what the problem tomorrow

1:37:32or 6 or 8 months or 12 months down the line is going to be you've got a bad deal and you can't get out of those. So we've got to figure this thing out and I think the sector has been very good about saying let's take a little bit of time and actually negotiate this correctly. So you talked about compensation, like that's one idea, but it actually probably is too long of a conversation to actually be had. But what about like giving cultural groups like 12% of the tokens that come out of the Telus data center? It's like we recognize that your works have been absorbed into the ether and trained on mankind and we get this amazing

1:38:04box in return. What we're willing to offer you is we're going to build the Hootsweet data center, but we're also going to give the community 20% of the tokens for the director's guild of Canada, the screenwriters guild of Canada, the cultural producers association. >> This is an option. So, this is where things like um you know the compute access program and other things are are really modeled, right? You want to make sure that we are creating access to compute, access to data, access to to data centers, access to the GPUs that people need, particularly in the nonfor-profit world and particularly for the creative. So yeah, absolutely. It's all part of the strategy of how we

1:38:41actually roll this stuff out. We just need to be able to have enough to be able to dole it out and right now that's obviously the challenge we're solving for. But all of these are live conversations. Ideas like this actually do help because we can go back and say, listen, if this is a great way to compensate folks, why don't we do this?

1:38:54because you actually add intellectual horsepower to the ecosystem. >> I mean, if you were offering data for good society 12% of the tokens that come out of the Telus data center, all of a sudden you'd have like >> you'd have so many people out there in the streets dealing with those the resistance and the protest that you actually probably can't even engage in an honest conversation with because they're going to boo you off the stage.

1:39:16>> They can. They're doing the work out there. So how do we like >> well I actually think that the role of government here could be to say listen there are organizations like this like this like like like the writer guild etc. we can facilitate the conversation with Telus quite easily, right? The new CEO of Telus and the old CEO Darren said they're very keen to do this. So, we can actually help facilitate that conversation if they can help give you access to what you need. That's great. I mean, for and you were talking about who can we access. I mean, there is no reason we shouldn't have a conversation or you shouldn't have a conversation

1:39:44with the f with the folks at Coher about how can they help you because that's a fabulous example of a Canadian LLM that wants to do the kind of things that you're talking about. So, we could actually make that connection for you as well. That's a bit of a pro tip from from me to the rest of you. If you guys are building ideas and you're seeking fun federal funding or provincial funding, if you can align with the cohhere stuff, you give a strong argument towards sovereignty and all the things that they're investing. They're championing the champions right now and that's coher. And there's a lot of money on the table. And so to the extent we

1:40:15can align with those things in our solutions, we can probably check some of their boxes as well. Um, >> 100%. Um, I do have one more question for you, but I want to like maybe I'll just ask it right now before we move on. So, I and many of us here have long had a vision for a West Coast center of AI excellence. Allah, Vector, and Amy and Mila. And I've put a lot of energy into this, sir. So, kill this baby for me or let me know the path forward. Like, is there a way for us to build in your writing an AI federal center of excellence focused on the creative industries and ethical AI

1:40:50here? like we have the nodes. We've got the best supercomputer in Canada with the cedar and fur computer up at SFU. We've got organizations like this 300 members. How do we make this happen? How do we bring a a center to your writing? >> This is a fantastic question. I'm so glad I could.

1:41:06>> This is not this is not this is like my thing I care about. >> We have been So, just so you know, there are things I cannot say to you about this matter and that should give you hope. Um, [applause and cheering] I'll take it. No, look, we have been, this is really important to me personally, um, as as the Vancouver Granville MP. It's important to me as the BC caucus chair and it's important to me as the parliamentary secretary for AI. We are fighting like hell to make sure we get something here in this space. And the question has been like what should it be? My view is that, you know, you've actually got practical AI

1:41:43in this province in a way that you don't see anywhere else. I actually think that there is a tremendous look there's work being done. Ravi, Rick, everyone's been working on it with us. Evan and I have been on this. Um, we are very much on a journey to somewhere good. Those people he's name dropping is uh Ravi Cologne, the current minister of health in the province. Evan Solomon, the AI minister of Canada. I think you maybe said another one, but the the people that you're in dialogue with are the people that make these things happen. and and and we are and and this is really actually an important thing because you know we are hearing from UBC the risk of

1:42:15not having an institute. I met with the president of SFU today about the importance of making sure that we're sending a signal to BC. The premier has said this directly to the prime minister and to me. Um it is not lost on me. It is not lost on any of us how important it is to plant the flag here and stay tuned.

1:42:32>> All right man. Well we also just don't want to also stay tuned. We would love to be a part of that dialogue with you. We've been putting out position papers, uh, research, and we're we're doing what we can to like back stop, back fill all that stuff on the We're doing what we can.

1:42:46>> All right. Now, we get to ask some questions and answers. >> Alex, you already talked. Darren, cool. Yeah. Raise your hands real quick. I just I'm taking inventory. All right. Here we go. >> Hi, welcome. >> What's your name? >> Hi, Hillary. >> Hi, Chris. Hi. Uh, hi Taleeb. Nice to see you. Um, >> nice to see you, but hi.

1:43:08>> Hi. Nice to see you. Is it just like bright light in your face? >> I can see you. >> Okay. Hi. Um, so my question is about public infrastructure. So it's building off of your question around Telus, but what does it look like to share uh to maybe develop more public good uh infrastructure around AI versus just building it with commercial interest?

1:43:28For those of you who don't know, I work as a VC. I spend all of my time thinking about scaling AI and technologies. But I think as we're thinking about that, we also have to think about the public good uh and building infrastructure around this in that capacity. So I'm curious to hear more.

1:43:43So um you know I think we are actually at a place right now where this is a question that starts to matter more and more because whether it's nonprofits, whether it's government, whether it's the health care system, whether it is school boards, whether it is small community organizations, the access that you are talking about is increasing in need is is incre the request for access is increasing. the ability of the public sector to provide those has not moved uh substantially and we do have tremendous asset classes that we can actually deploy together working with provinces and municipalities to do that. I think it's a very live conversation right now.

1:44:21The question is what model actually works. So we're looking at other countries that have done this well and it's going to be part of I think what we're trying to do in the next little while. We are going to have to partner in the first instance in building some of this stuff with the private sector. I think the aspiration is that you find trusted, reliable partners that understand the value of of doing exactly this and we have the rights to be able to say X or Y portion of this is dedicated to to the public sector. So we're getting to these we're now in the in the brass tax on a lot of these things. I'd like to add to that as well.

1:44:48So I was the CTO of the indigenomics institute for a while and we have two H200s in the Romanov Telles facility in Ontario in Quebec. Um it's not that they don't want to align with some of the stuff that we're doing or whatever. It's just there's a whole lot of gatekeeping and corporate interest kind of in place.

1:45:04And so like the there there there is a way they are giving infrastructure to indigenous reconciliations organizations and stuff, but it's all just through like corporate granting and gifting programs or something. And there's got to be like a more public good, public interest kind of a way to to make that accessible to lots of people. Um Taleeb, I have Liz Marshall, filmmaker uh making a film about water usage in AI.

1:45:27>> Excellent. >> Thanks Chris. Hey Taleeb, thank you so much. Um, I'm I'm really betw twixed about the whole sovereignty piece when so many big American tech companies are deeply entangled in the tech space here in Canada. Um, and they're here for our water. Um, and Palunteer has many contracts. Can you speak to sovereignty and what that means, please?

1:46:02Thank you. So there's a lot of implications in your question which I I appreciate. Um when we talk about so when I talk about sovereignty point of view of one um it means really two things. One is that Canadians can trust where their data lives, where their ideas live and that they will not be used against them. So for example, one of my big concerns has been healthcare data and making sure that provincial health health authorities are storing the health data of Canadians in or this British columbombians in places where they can be assured that that data lives and resides in Canada that whether it's a US provider or otherwise that the cloud act or other pieces of US legislation do not

1:46:45have an adverse impact on Canadians whether they're crossing the border, applying for visa, etc., etc. Um that's one very real example of of what I mean by sovereignty. The other is actually, you know, even more, I think even more sinister, which is the idea that if we lose if Canadian corporations, if Canadian innovators, if Canadian IP resides somewhere outside of Canada or where Canadians do not have direct control and access over it, what that actually means, what the implications of that are if a rogue government decides, well, this data center actually lives in Texas, we're going to take whatever IP lives there from whatever countries in the world and use that for our benefit.

1:47:30You're out of luck. These are real concerns and these are real concerns today that we are grappling with, which is why we have made the decisions to actually invest in cap sovereign capacity in this country. >> I got a couple little things to add as well. There's a third way that sovereignty is used in Canada interchangeably that's important to understand and that's around data sovereignty with indigenous nations and they're like we want to know like what data you got and we want to be in control of it and we want to access it like uh uh utilize it for our own benefit not for like the benefit of necessarily Canada or humanity or what they want to be able to opt in with

1:48:04their data as well. So there's like Canadian national data sovereignty, there's indigenous data sovereignty, there's just there there there's a few different ways that this word is used quite interchangeably, I find. And so it's it's good to um to pull those part. >> You didn't ask me about Palunteer. Ma'am, you asked me what I thought about you asked me what my definition of sovereignty was. That was the question.

1:48:24>> Let's keep it constructive. >> He didn't he didn't answer. But ma'am, you asked me you you asked me what I thought about sovereignty and what my I answered that. You made a comment about Palunteer. So, if you want me to talk about Palanteer, I'm happy to. >> I have very real personal concerns about Palunteer >> and about how they operate. That's all I'll say.

1:48:41>> I do, too. >> Eileen, I'm sorry I missed you earlier. >> Oh, no, that's all right. I I can find them later. Um, >> this will be slightly rambling, which is not my style, but to follow on Liz's >> Yeah, I'm going to keep it tight. We're gonna take, you know, when when we talk about regulating AI, I also find that kind of laughable. I mean like that's if you compare it to like food safety >> uh you got to regulate things on the way in it's garbage in garbage out. So if you if we want to regulate we want and and want to have responsible growth it's about what water are they taking what

1:49:15energy are they taking how does that impact the community at large what does that impact in the public good so I I'm curious about what the conversations are around what's going in >> versus trying to you know close the gate after the after the horses run out to mix so many analogies but >> you know you can't regulate the output you have to regulate the inut it and figure it out on the way in.

1:49:38>> Look, >> so tell me, >> look, you know, I if I were in charge, I would have had very real concerns about a hyperscaler building their data center in Alberta and doing what they are doing in order to be able to power that data center. Um, I was less concerned um and more hopeful about what Telus is trying to do here because if we're going to build these things, the question is how do we build them best-in-class? How do we make sure that there's closed loop water usage? How do we make sure we're using the heat that is coming out to um heat communities, reduce the cost to rate payers, eliminate um you know eliminate

1:50:15some of the risks that we can eliminate? It's not a perfect answer and it's not a perfect set of outcomes. The question that we have to ask is if we are going to build data centers which are getting built all over the world and Alberta has a particular point of view on this. BC has a particular Taleeb as a individual has a particular point on whether I want these in my backyard or not. Um we have to figure out how to make them as is good. I don't know if the word is good but like you know good neighbors how the impact of these is as much as possible neutral to positive and not negative and so when government is

1:50:54talking about building guidelines it is with that in mind because there is no value you saw what's happened in Hamilton you've seen what's happened in other places where communities have said look we don't want this in our backyard and absolutely not we're going to protest in this recent by we're going to city council saying we don't want these anymore >> and that's that is the reality we talked about social license earlier that's the reality If we present to Canadians the idea that we're going to jam something down your throat that is not well understood, that may not be what you want, that doesn't give a damn about the environment, that is going to create a

1:51:23low-level hum in your backyard, who the hell is going to say yes to that? But if you say to people, look, we're building these things. Here's the technology that we're seeking to use. Here are the environmental protections we're putting into place. Here's what you can expect. Here is what the social good is going to be coming out of this data center. Whether it's access to compute, whether it's access to capacity, whether it's access to whatever we're going to be able to provide. Here is the public good that is going to come.

1:51:49>> Yeah, that's the story we need to figure out, sir. That's the question. >> That's what we got to figure out. Like, do you believe that it's Chris right here in the middle? >> I'm over here. Um, >> yeah, look, unfair advantage. I can't see. >> I know. I'm sorry. Yeah, that's why I identify myself. Um, do you believe that there might be companies or governments that would pay an 8% premium for tokens that came from a clean green just indigenous owned hydropowered data center?

1:52:14>> You know, I think there are I I'm not I mean look >> like could that be our thing? Could that be what we export is like clean green just tokens? I think there is a reality that the world is looking down the barrel of that if we are not able to build the so there are companies that are saying if you can't build these things at scale we have real problems right that is a reality and so people are going to ask at what cost corporate cost and other cost are we going to have to build these things what do we have to put on the table and I think that's a very good conversation to have because

1:52:41the trade-off can't be free water free power free this free that for a data center in somebody's backyard the trade-off has to be we are prepared to make investments in that community prepared to give back. Absolutely. And I think that is where we need to be headed and I think that's where public policy is heading because otherwise you're going to end up in a world where all of us including me are going to be like we're not building any more of these.

1:53:02>> So yeah, I think the answer is yes. >> You're on fire. Um this is Emily right here. She's got a question about healthare. >> You sort of >> Yes. Um yeah, I was so happy you brought up healthcare and I guess my question we're talking about Canadians across the country. We're talking about what we're experiencing in BC and when we think about these data centers, >> sharing healthcare information between provinces still is near impossible.

1:53:25>> When we think of pandemic preparedness and >> outbreak prevention in a hospital, we're dealing with Excel sheets still >> if you're lucky. >> If you're lucky. Yeah. And so I'm just wondering what are the conversations that are happening if you can comment on it for >> so many. Well, I'm sure, but I like what are the next steps to improve provincial data sharing? We can't build AI centers if we don't have the structures to actually share it.

1:53:51>> And even if you have a data center, if you don't have the legislative framework to share it, you have a problem. So, I'm going to take you back to 2011, which is like 15 16 years ago. I was asked by the provincial government then to do a review of what they call the alternative service delivery model. And one of the things that came out of that conversation was the fact that a physician at bedside in a hospital could not access patient records from the family physician, from the specialist, from the X-ray that they had, you know, down the hall, right? And so you spend 30 minutes, right? You spend the first 20 minutes going, "What the is going on here?"

1:54:35Sorry, pardon my language. What the heck is going on here? Where are the records? is what are we pulling from? And then you have to make a best case diagnoses

1:54:59and how do you remove the actual barriers? The work is actually now happening and it's getting it is not we've figured it out within health authorities now I think in each province which is you know which has been no small feat and those of you in healthcare know that it's been torturous across provinces the conversations really started last year and the work is now starting but I can tell you that there is an absolute commitment to do this because it is in many cases a matter of life and death for patients and the the economic cost on the system of not doing it I think people are now realizing that you got to bite the

1:55:31bullet, figure it out now and so I'm hopeful that by the end of this year there will actually be a plan to to implementation. >> Yeah, I work firstand in this in the space. So would hap would love to continue the conversation. >> Absolutely. One of the coolest things about our little network we got here is like we're all interconnected on group chats and stuff and so we can like come up barf out an idea in the morning and a bunch of people if it's a good idea will start working on and activate it. So, this guy right here runs data centers, Rio. Um, he's going to introduce himself in a sec. And he popped up this morning.

1:56:00He's like, "Man, I see a threat to my career." So, I started spending like a thousand bucks a month on tokens and software and all these things. And I'm learning it myself. And like maybe we can run a pilot program here in BC where people are like upskilling and adopt you like uh figuring this out for themselves, but maybe somehow like subsidized or tax credited by like the government to pay for tokens. So, then we developed a whole uh >> Yeah, I saw the I saw the petition thing. You saw the petition?

1:56:24>> Yeah. >> How, >> man? AI is incredible. >> Oh my god. [laughter] [cheering and applause] >> Wow. >> I'm speechless. Okay. >> Rene. >> Uh, hey Tib. Uh, happy to have you here. Uh, so the question is, >> I'm going to put you on the spot. Yeah. >> Would you be would you commit to backing a bill to uh give AI subscriptions as tax credits for learning?

1:56:53>> Here's what I will do. Here's the answer. I'll give you two things. One is I think you should look at what's coming in the next budget because there's going to be a whole whole bunch of uh there's a big piece around upskilling >> and and making sure that people have access to AI, have the ability to know how to use it. You know, we just put a whole bunch of money on the table for this already in terms of training people.

1:57:11>> How much There's I think we 60 there's a lot. I'll give you the program called >> hundreds of millions of dollars. What's the program called? So I look it's it's called the AI. >> You can get back to me. >> I'll get back to you. I'll send you the information. It's got some look you know how government it's got a long name but there are three announc but there's three key things right. One is there are partners that we're going to be looking for to help train and retrain in AI. Number one. Number two is like you know the prime minister said every every student in this country will have their own AI agent, right? So that

1:57:41work is currently underway. The third piece around this is actually making sure that community organizations who are doing work and helping to skills train and retrain around AI have access to providers that can do this work in a meaningful way. So those three things are happening. In terms of the tax credit piece, that is a very interesting idea. And what I will do is if you have the something on it, I've seen the the petition. I will actually send that directly. They're doing we're doing budget consultations right now. So I will feed that in directly >> and see if they can consider that. Give us one more day to revise it before you send it along.

1:58:12>> Okay, but look, listen, but this is this time sensitive, right? Very time sensitive. Very time sensitive. >> Um, we're putting the budget together like in the next month. >> Anna, welcome. >> Thanks. >> Hello. Um I was wondering um your thoughts around what we can learn from our failure to regulate earlier technologies, social media being kind of the current case in point and looking ahead toward the impact of AI because we're looking at um the public sector funding or backing some of this AI private sector development and uh we will end up having the public sector pay the costs of the impacts later on. So >> that's the question.

1:59:01>> It's a great question. So there is a 17-year-old kid that belongs to, as I mentioned, my wife's friend sitting on my couch right now who hates AI and is worried about exactly this. And he's right. And I think we have to be very very I think we have to be very um aware I think is the right word. be very very like clear in our own minds that doing this right right now is huge.

1:59:26Right? I look I spent the better part of the fall dealing with the fallout spring I guess dealing with the fallout from Tumblr Ridge, right? What happens? What happens when [clears throat] access to this technology unchecked ends up in the hands of people who are vulnerable and who are susceptible to what these chat bots as an example can do. Um, a very good friend of mine is a woman named Faraser, some of you will remember her from the evening news.

1:59:57Her son asked their Tesla, asked Grock and their Tesla a question, her 13-year-old boy, and Grock's response was send nudes. Right? This is like a well doumented story now and it's real. And you know the consequences of all of this on mental health, on society, on human relations, on our ability to depersonalize conflict into something that looks like a video game, we've seen this already is very real. And so when we talk about when we talk about online safety, we talk about regulation, you talk about some of the bills that are coming in the fall, you will see some of this play out. I'm going to actually need all of you to come and speak up

2:00:36because there is an entire army of people who are saying any regulation, any effort to stifle is actually really really bad. And it's not about stifling, it's about making sure that we actually have the license to do the big things that we need to do. And you do that by keeping people safe. So in the fall, and Chris, I'm going to call on you. We're going to have hearings on these bills.

2:00:55You need to make sure there's a really strong group of people that are pragmatists about this, but also understand the risk the risk profile that we need to get right on this. So I will create as much opportunity as I can for as many people in this room to show up at committee and to speak. Careful what you wish for.

2:01:17>> I mean alternate to that is that those folks come out to BC and sit as you're doing tonight in this room and hear it live in a very organic method, you know, of people going >> Not everybody wants to do this. >> Yeah. No, they know and there's and there's a >> you got like five more minutes in you.

2:01:36>> Yeah. And just in the 10 seconds there's a very and the problem is the committee piece is a very formal process, right? Legislation comes we have there's a >> but it's a new camera, >> right? It's a new >> I like look I like the road show. >> Hi, welcome. >> Hi. I have a question for education about AI. So my son here is 13 years old. I heard you talk about the 17 years old uh child as well.

2:02:01>> This is one of my concern as a parent. >> I'm constantly monitoring my son like every single day, every moment. I'm >> sure he loves it. >> He actually love being here because everything that we talk about, he actually acknowledged this is scary war and he wanted to know. This is why he's here as well. He wanted >> [laughter] >> He he actually wanted to know that what what is the government is doing so to protect their vulnerable like they're not knowledgeable enough to even acknowledge what is out there that is scarier.

2:02:41>> It's a great question. It's a very very good question. We are right now working um with uh Vector in Toronto and Amy the two institutes in Edmonton to actually put together which are going to roll out this fall programs for teachers in classrooms to understand exactly how to teach young people about the use of AI and it is teacher it is educator focused but it is focused on teaching young people and it's not just about here's how you use AI quite the opposite it's about yes because these figure it out they don't need us to tell them that It's what is the responsible use? What is the risks? What are the consequences?

2:03:15How do you manage your usage of this? How do you use it in a productive way? Not to replace thinking. Um, and it's and I and I and because it is actually led by educators as opposed to some random politician or, you know, an AI advocate, but actually by teachers and by educators working with the AI community. I think you're going to see some really good stuff from it. So, I'd love to hear what you think when they do roll it out. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

2:03:40>> Supposed to be the fall. Fingers crossed. >> Taleeb, I'm over here on the left hand flank. I got Gregory asking a question. Gregory, >> hey. Yeah, thanks for coming to talk to us. >> No worries. >> Oh, we're entering the lightning round. >> Okay, you keep it to 20, you keep it to five to seven.

2:03:55>> Okay. >> Minutes seconds. My my thought about it all is uh where it comes down a rubber meets the road and that's at the data itself and how do we stop ourselves Canada becoming the hinterland like we did with oil and trees and everything that we have to America and the world with our data. Is there value in our data? And that may be how you would treat the individual Canadian who has a lot of trust issues with AI, not just creatives or nonprofits, but the individual. How are you handling their data and do they get value out of that?

2:04:29>> And this is exactly this is exactly why data sovereignty matters and making sure we're not just handing it off to people for free. Absolutely. >> So that this is a big part of why the big red line that we're trying to draw on this with the US and other countries. >> Well, internally as well how do you bring the value of that to the individual?

2:04:46>> Well, I think this is where we actually have to talk to people what it is that we're trying to accomplish with data. And I think this is that's that is a second phase conversation. people don't even understand right now what data they we have we hold we own and how to actually do something with that and what what we're doing and I'll give you can I well take 10 seconds on this healthcare again going back to healthcare if you use US health care data to inform patient care in this country it does not work because healthcare outcomes in Canada are very very different healthcare indicators in Canada very very different and so we have to

2:05:16actually treat Canadian data for Canadians in a very very different way in terms of its utilization and its implementation in terms of some of the problems we're trying to solve really does make a big difference. It really does matter. >> You're killing it, man. >> So, I have twin 17 year olds and I'm wondering like what is the future of the job situation for, you know, the whole structure of jobs is going to change?

2:05:44What to expect? What do the youth need to be prepared for? >> I'm going to add a wild card to the top of your question. The wild card is we were talking about sovereignty earlier and I've been watching some videos this week of my um trusted sources around AI thought leadership and >> the newest thing I've heard this week is that like Anthropic might be the only company in the world in the future. This is like what current market projections predict is that in order to consolidate inference power, computational resources, capital, they're going to continue to scale, hypers scale, and they may be the only company in the whole world someday. We're sitting here talking about like sovereignty.

2:06:28These questions are like the the big the people who know the most about this in the whole wide world are like there's a significant shift going like maybe we're all just rearranging deck chairs. >> So how honest am I allowed to be when I see >> you do what you want to do man. So I came back. So we had a look, everybody's been coming through Ottawa to talk to us and you open AI's come to see us and Coher and Anthropic and and I come out of these meetings and I and I sort of go home and I I reflect and it feels like I'm living a Bond movie, right? Like is this what was that thing?

2:07:05>> You're paying attention. What was that thing that that that movie where which Bond was you know >> acting like we watched Skyfall right? Was it Skyfall? Was it project Skyfall where the thing basically controlled? Right. So like you're like I would be lying to you if I said look these are not thoughts that cross my mind.

2:07:20>> Um but I think we have to be real about two things. One is the technology is developing. It's moving. We have to figure out exactly how to make sure that whatever our place is going to be in it, we have the safeguards in place to protect Canadians, to protect our data, to protect who we are, and and and frankly to not fall into the trap of becoming completely owned by any single corporate entity or enterprise because that's not good for humanity and ultimately that's proven throughout history not to work, right? History has told us that a single dominant player never survives for the long term. Ask Kodak.

2:07:50All right. So uh but to your point >> jobs careers careers yeah >> there are two realities. One is that the human end of professions AI will never replace and so you see this now big upswing upswing in the trades. Why have we put $6 billion into trades because there is an increasing need for people who actually build things and do things in this country and those are in some cases extremely well-paying careers and jobs for people. Um, AI cannot. Yeah, I mean, God, I say this now, but like robots and humans are >> I know you have to be careful what you say because moving so quickly, but but there are going to be people who have to

2:08:28direct that traffic and that is where humans come into this. I think we can't lose sight. We have to give kids a sense of purpose and sense of hope in what they're building. We have to be pragmatic and explain to them the importance of constantly retraining. Look, when I went to university, I showed up. I had no idea what the internet was. When I left my pine inca telnet was replaced by a web browser that was called Netscape, right? Like life changed, right? And that was in four years. That was between 1998 myself and 1994 and 1998 my entire frame of reference changed, >> right? So we have to be ready and like we've all adapted and kids are

2:09:05resilient. They will adapt. We just got to give them the tools. >> I get asked all the time like what should I say? uh me and my kids saved up a college fund. Now it's time for them to spend their college fund. They came to me and they said, "Mom, what should I spend my money on?" And they're like, "I don't have an answer to that question."

2:09:19You know, like it's a very it's a very very real thing that um it's never been more hard to see into the future I feel like around where things are going, especially these very practical decisions like what should you go study for the next four years, son or daughter? >> In fact, like this is why this whole room exists actually is this is a resilience network. If you haven't figured it out, this is like us this is like us uncertain and a little bit afraid about the future but being proactive and positive and trying to put our stamp onto it. And so that that that is actually what's going on.

2:09:52>> It's a little bit like group therapy. It's excellent.

2:09:59>> I'm gonna give you the mic, but are you sure you need to talk again? >> It's very short. So I work with consulting and what I what we see with with clients is that we need AI not where not how not what is it going to solve but we need AI. So it's almost like a FOMO that they need AI but without a real reason why and you know what's going to I don't know if it's a statement but uh we're not able to solve that for the clients. We try to get in there but it's still not a solable solution. Not an easy >> Yeah.

2:10:30>> I appreciate your contribution. There was a flurry of hands right here. Oh, Kevin, thanks for coming up, bro. >> Mr. Pixel Wizard. >> Oh, man. Okay, another tough one. >> He's a professional creative, 20 years in film, television, and Hollywood and he's trying to figure out the industry. You know, >> there is a massive reliance right now on Nvidia as kind of the brute force of compute.

2:10:51>> And it's not the beall and endall. We're starting to see the needle move on more efficient compute. >> Um, better usage of energy, better usage of heat output. Is there any consideration in all of this data center conversation on using smart compute and is there any provision for any Canadian frontier chip designers to get in on that equation?

2:11:16I look >> yeah to drop this >> the second part of your question man that's my like >> I the technical term is I don't know what the but yes I want sweet spot I would like this but here's what I would say here's what I would say my my thesis and like again point of view of one this is not the government this is Taleeb's point of view so take it for what it's worth nothing um we all remember the server farms of the '9s >> I think that's where data centers are going to be in a decade maybe less I really do because I I think as comput power, I mean as as as you can do more

2:11:48with less, as as as your GPU, [laughter] you know, material ch all of these things change, as the technical requirements, as the as the hardware requirements change, as things get smarter and quicker. You think about what my iPhone does versus what my I played Snake. You some of you remember Snake, right, on the old Nokia, like how much have things changed over the course of the last short number of years. So I think we have to understand that what we're building today may actually not have any need in in five or 10 years.

2:12:19But between now and then if you don't have those things you can't get to where you need to be. So I think the short answer is on both. Yes. >> I got Catherine Warren right here. She's a in the entertainment industry. She's a thought leader and used to run a nonprofit industry association.

2:12:31Catherine, >> thank you so much. Uh thanks Taleeb. I have a question about um China and the US with respect to Canada. So with this trade war heating up and with Carney's advances into strategic partnerships with China, how is that changing uh or al uh allegiances around data and some of these large infrastructure projects?

2:12:58>> So we have one allegiance and that's Canada. >> That's where it's going to start. One allegiance, it's Canada. We are going to be extremely careful when it comes to the when it comes to the US, which we are, and we are already extremely careful when it comes to China on what we will and what we will not do.

2:13:16Where the partnerships work for Canada, we will engage. Where they do not, where they put Canadians at risk, where they put Canadians data at risk, where they put Canadian IP at risk, not a chance we're going to go there. Um, and that applies to a lot of other countries as well, frankly. It's not just the US and and China. There are other places in the world that we have to be mindful. Now that said, >> the AI >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're the AI leaders. But there's an entire and I don't want to call it middle powers because you're hearing this a lot, but there's an entire second trunch of countries.

2:13:44>> No, do say it. It's actually a very interesting >> the middle powers AI strategy articulated real, right? This middle power AI strategy is very very real. the Germans, the French, um the the Nordics, even the, you know, other other parts of the world, the Singaporeans, they're all saying, "How do we actually do this together as a bit of a as a bit of a bull work against the the two hedgeimons that we have to manage?" Because we actually do need to have if we have sort of combined capacity among nations that share values that we can trust, we actually create a third option for people. To be fair, Evan Solomon called a hyperscaler and a hegeimon, not two

2:14:20hedgeimons. >> Yeah, I can say what I think. I can say what I think. >> I know. Um, this really speaks to the heart of the matter in some ways, right? Because like uh Anthropic and uh and OpenAI, they come out and they say like, you know, this is the frontier and this what and then China's like, hold my beer and watch this >> and then they go ahead and re-engineer the whole thing and push the the leading edge on the open source front, you know, and this is actually probably the sweet spot for Canada. I might throw the cush here as long as he doesn't burn the place down because um the sweet spot the

2:14:51middle power solution is like can we run distributed open-source AI systems that aren't the hyperscaler Silicon Valley anthropic you know business model and can that be our unique differentiating factor the thing that we offer as export to the world with Germany Australia Amiradis Finland all the people that he's talking about like that's what they're going after is like some sort of Um, >> yeah. Um, okay. Hyper lightning round and the result I I I just want to say one more thing. Um, oh, hey, Elma. Um, we're extending our time right now, right? So, once we all get through this conversation, we're going to have to clean up after ourselves and get the home. All right? Because we're like

2:15:34uh we're not going to do the whole hour. We got cookies still and some drinks still, but it's going to be a short short period of time on the on the end side. Um, Alma, I got Alex. I'm clocking him. He had a question earlier. >> Hi, thank you. Uh, um, I'm Alma Barranco.

2:15:50I I've been working for the last 30 years, especially in health. I've been building AI systems for health and to your point, I think it's very very important what you said about using different data for Canadian systems, right? The problem there as I said I've been building these AI systems for health for 30 years and access to that data is almost near impossible.

2:16:16>> Correct. >> So what are we doing from the provincial point of view for us developers building these solutions that we can actually train our systems with Canadian data. >> So [snorts] one is you got to ask the province that question. what I can speak to is what Kaihigh and others are doing which is going to be very very important. Um and that is to actually start to open up access to the data anonymize data. This is very very important obviously um getting different systems to talk to each other is you know complicated but the provinces have agreed to do it. Kai is leading this effort. There's going to be other folks that are going to be

2:16:56actively involved in this. But the provincial health authorities here and across the across the country have now figured out that they actually need this to improve not just patient care but also to make things less expensive and to increase economies of scale. So it's now being done out of necessity and as I said before like I think this is going to be a very transformative year in that and by the end of the year we should start seeing some actual outcomes where you'll have the data that you need to be able to do the things that you're talking about. That's what they've told us. Anyways, >> thanks Taleeb.

2:17:22>> That guy's had his hand up for a while. I went back and asked him what his question was and it took him a minute and a half to think about what it was. He forgot. That's Alex. >> Are you sure, Alex? >> He was patient. >> My question has to do with capital because I thought it was really telling in what you said and it goes back to the sovereignty conversation too which is super important set of uh questions that are being asked.

2:17:48>> Lightning round >> capital. Why do we have to copy the US VC model? Why don't we p uh pursue a uniquely Canadian path for example by mirroring something like the Alaska Permanent Fund or the Norwegian sovereign wealth fund where we actually charge people for mineral extraction resource extraction and and use that use that money. No. And use that money to actually fund the the capital projects that we need here. And and don't come back at me with the carne sovereign wealth.

2:18:22>> No no no I'm not going to I'm actually not going to. I'm actually because I couldn't have paid you enough to ask me that question. >> So, I actually think there are three things I'm going to say. >> Maybe you did pay him. He's the one you kept insisting that I call. [laughter] >> I see. I see. I clocked you a mile away.

2:18:38>> Look, there are sovereign wealth funds and then there are sovereign wealth funds. All right. Like I'm thinking about what I want Canada to have and I have spoken to the prime minister about this is I would like for us to have something like what Tamasic has in Singapore. I would like something that is that does exactly that. One of the things that we need in order to be able to get there is to break the psychology in this country of pension funds, of banks, and of of the case and others who seem, I would say, reticent as being charitable um to invest in Canadian innovators.

2:19:17They will act with speed to jump on the bandwagon in other countries. You look at investment profiles of some of these funds, they've done extremely well and kudos to the teachers in Ontario who are extremely well. >> Are you talking about John Rufo? >> John, >> yeah. Yeah. So, and like look what Mavericks are trying to do now. Look, I think that there are three thing as I said there three things that are going wrong in let me lost my train of thought. Sorry. One is pension funds need to realize the opportunities in this country. Number two is Canadian investors and if there are investors I'm speaking to you, you hear me say this.

2:19:48Canadian investors are profoundly riskaverse when it comes to investing in technology, but will write a $10,000 or $100,000 check for a mind that may never see the light of day for reasons I will never understand. Truly. Truly. So, we need to break the psychology in this country and actually accept that we built some pretty good stuff here and our investors need to get with the program because if you're going to talk about Canadian sovereignty, put your money where your mouth is. That's what I would say.

2:20:21Stay tuned. Budget. The third thing that I would say, this budget is going to be very interesting for that question. The third thing that I would say is that unlocking capital in this country is something that is going to take a bit of an effort by people in some sense who are coming back to this country or coming to this country. Hi S.

2:20:43>> Wild salmon, >> right? Wild salmon. Wild Salmon. Um, >> you just nicknamed it that that that's going to stick. Yeah. >> Um, >> and by the way, his wife is one of the most incredible pianists. I know Abdul. I'm biased. I know Abdul, >> you know, but yeah. So, like we're related, so I'm I'm biased.

2:21:03>> Uh, but investors who are coming back or who are coming need to actually put pressure on the investment community in this country to say, "Look, if you want us to build Canadian companies, we actually need to see Canadian capital." Because having a company headquartered in Vancouver, but 80% of its ownership being somewhere else doesn't actually give you a Canadian company. It gives you a company that lives in Canada that's owned by somebody else. And I'm not saying that we should not take foreign capital by any sort. But we have so much money sitting on the sidelines in this country that is risk averse and we need to find a way in government is going to play a role in this. The

2:21:36investment summit that's coming up in three weeks is actually going to inspire, I think, Canadian investors to get off their asses a little bit, invest in this country >> and I think it's going to Sorry. happen soon. >> Well, it's happening on September 15th, so let's let's go with that and see where we go. But I think you're absolutely right. We got to fix this.

2:21:52>> You're a stud. Thanks for showing up with no notes and no presentation, having a real conversation with us. I really appreciate you. >> I will distribute [applause] >> I will distribute to all of you my slide deck later. [laughter] >> This was just a a big Trojan horse to let you know that you have an AI think tank in your writing that wants to be having a seat at the table. Sir, if you ever got like questions about what's going on, I know you're the man with the finger on the pulse, but so are we.

2:22:19>> Let us know how we can collaborate with you, man. Thank you so much for being here. YEAH. [applause]

2:22:32>> Thank you for coming. Thank you for bringing your questions. Thanks for having like the right spirit about that. Not a single person tried to burn him to the ground and I really appreciate that. That's this is not the place for that. just kept the light shining in his eye. >> I I think he's hyper smart and welcomes a challenge and I bet he hasn't had a Thank you. Thank you.

2:22:52>> This makes me This makes the job worthwhile. >> Thank you. I really do appreciate you. I see you and I appreciate you. Um guys, we got to be out of here in 15 minutes. So, here's the deal. Um we're not allowed to eat or drink in this room, but we've been eating and drinking because we're good. So, clean up after your neighbor and yourself. Give some cards to some people. Um say goodbye on your way out. But thank you very much for coming, for being a part of this.

2:23:14We're doing future proof. We're doing the BCAI thing. >> Thanks for being here. [applause]

2:23:32>> Organizations like this, 300 members. How do we make this happen? How do we bring a a center to your writing? >> This is a fantastic question. I'm so glad you could. This is not this is not this is like my thing I care about. >> We have been so just so you know there are things I cannot say to you about this matter and that should give you hope. Um [applause and cheering] I'll take it. No look we have been this is really important to me personally um as as the Vancouver Granville MP. It's important to me as the BC caucus and it's important to me as the parliamentary secretary for AI. we are

2:24:08fighting like hell to make sure we get something here in this space and the question has been like what should it be my view is that you know you've actually got practical AI in this province in a way that you don't see anywhere else so I actually think that there is a tremendous look there's work being done Ravi Rick everyone's been working on it with us Evan and I have been on this um we are very much on a journey to somewhere good those people he's name dropping is uh Ravi Cologne the current minister of health in the province Evan Solomon the AI minister of Canada. I think you maybe said another one, but the the people that you're in dialogue

2:24:41with are the people that make these things happen. >> And and we are and and this is really actually an important thing because, >> you know, we are hearing from UBC the risk of not having an institute. I met with the president of SFU today about the importance of making sure that we're sending a signal to BC. The premier has said this directly to the prime minister and to me. Um it is not lost on me. It is not lost on any of us how important it is to plant the flag here. and stay tuned.

2:25:07>> All right, man. Well, we also just don't want to also stay tuned. We would love to be a part of that dialogue with you. We've been putting out position papers, uh, research, and we're we're doing what we can to like back stop backfill all that stuff on. We're doing what we can.

2:25:21>> All right. Now, we get to ask some questions and answers. >> Alex, you already talked. Darren, cool. Yeah. Raise your hands real quick. I just take inventory. All right. Here we go. >> Hi, welcome. All I see is the light. >> What's your name? >> Hillary. >> Hi, Hillary. >> Hi, Chris. Hi. Uh, hi Taleeb. Nice to see you. Um, >> nice to see you, but hi.

2:25:43>> Hi. Nice to see you. Is it just like bright light in your face? >> I can see. >> Okay. Hi. Um, so my question is about public infrastructure. So, it's building off of your question around Telus, but what does it look like to share uh to maybe develop more public good uh infrastructure around AI versus just building it with commercial interest?

2:26:02For those of you who don't know, I work as a VC. I spend all of my time thinking about scaling AI and technologies, but I think as we're thinking about that, we also have to think about the public good uh and building infrastructure around this in that capacity. So, I'm curious to hear more. So um you know I think we are actually at a place right now where this is a question that starts to matter more and more because whether it's nonprofits, whether it's government, whether it's the health care system, whether it is school boards, whether it is small community organizations, the access that you are talking about is increasing in need is is incre the request for access is

2:26:42increasing. the ability of the public sector to provide those has not moved uh substantially and we do have tremendous asset classes that we can actually deploy together working with provinces and municipalities to do that and I think it's a very live conversation right now the question what model actually works so we're looking at other countries that have done this well and it's going to be part of I think what we're trying to do in the next little while we are going to have to partner in the first in building some of this stuff with the private sector I think the aspiration is that you find trusted reliable partners that understand the value of of doing exactly this and we

2:27:13have the rights to be able to X or Y portion of this is dedicated to to the public sector. So we're getting to these we're now in the in the brass tax on a lot of these things. >> I'd like to add to that as well. So I was the CTO of the Indigenomics Institute for a while and we have two H200s in the Romanoff Telles facility in Ontario in Quebec. Um it's not that they don't want to align with some of the stuff that we're doing or whatever. It's just there's a whole lot of gatekeeping and corporate interest kind of in place.

2:27:39And so like the there there there is a way they are giving infrastructure to indigenous reconciliations organizations and stuff but it's all just through like corporate granting and gifting programs or something and there's got to be like a more public good public interest kind of a way to to make that accessible to lots of people. Um Taleeb I have Liz Marshall filmmaker uh making a film about water usage and AI.

2:28:02>> Excellent. >> Thanks Chris. Hey Taleeb. Thank you so much. Um, I'm I'm really betw twixed about the whole sovereignty piece when so many big American tech companies are deeply entangled in the tech space here in Canada. Um, and they're here for our water. Um, and Palunteer has many contracts. Can you speak to sovereignty and what that means, please?

2:28:36Thank you. >> So there's a lot of implications in your question which I I appreciate. Um when we talk about so when I talk about sovereignty point of view of one um it means really two things. One is that Canadians can trust where their data lives, where their ideas live and that they will not be used against them. So for example, one of my big concerns has been healthcare data and making sure that provincial health health authorities are storing the health data of Canadians in or this British columbombians in places where they can be assured that that data lives and resides in Canada that whether it's a US provider or otherwise that the cloud act

2:29:18or other piece of US legislation do not have an adverse impact on Canadians whether they're crossing the border, applying for visa, etc., etc. Um that's one very real example of of what I mean by sovereignty. The other is actually, you know, even more, I think even more sinister, which is the idea that if we lose if Canadian corporations, if Canadian innovators, if Canadian IP resides somewhere outside of Canada or where Canadians do not have direct control and access over it, what that actually means, what the implications of that are if a rogue government decides, well, this data center actually lives in Texas.

2:30:00we're going to take whatever IP lives there from whatever countries in the world and use that for our benefit. You're out of luck. These are real concerns and these are real concerns today that we are grappling with which is why we have made the decisions to actually invest in cap sovereign capacity in this country.

2:30:18>> I got a couple little things to add as well. There's a third way that sovereignty is used in Canada interchangeably that's important to understand and that's around data sovereignty with indigenous nations and they're like we want to know like what data you got and we want to be in control of it and we want to access it like uh uh utilize it for our own benefit not for like the benefit of necessarily Canada or humanity or what they want to be able to opt in with their data as well. So there's like Canadian national data sovereignty, there's indigenous data sovereignty, there's just there there's a few different ways that this word is used quite interchangeably, I find. And so

2:30:49it's it's good to um to pull those part. >> You didn't ask me about Palunteer, ma'am. You asked me what I thought about you asked me what my definition of sovereignty was. That was the question. >> Let's keep it constructive. >> He didn't he didn't answer. >> But ma'am, you asked me you you asked me what I thought about sovereignty and what my I answered that. You made a comment about Palunteer. So, if you want me to talk about Palanteer, I'm happy to.

2:31:10>> I have very real personal concerns about Palunteer >> and about how they operate. That's all I'll say. >> I do too. >> Eileen, I'm sorry I missed you earlier. >> Oh, no, that's all right. I I can find them later. Um, this will be slightly rambling, which is not my style, but to follow on Liz's.

2:31:27>> Yeah, I'm going to keep it tight. We're gonna, you know, when when we talk about regulating AI, I also find that kind of laughable. I like that's if you compare it to like food safety, >> uh you got to regulate things on the way in, it's garbage in, garbage out. So if you if we want to regulate, we want and and want to have responsible growth.

2:31:46It's about what water are they taking? What energy are they taking? How does that impact the community at large? What does that impact in the public good? So I I'm curious about what the conversations are around what's going in versus trying to, you know, close the gate after the after the horses run out to mix so many analogies. But >> yeah, >> you know, you can't regulate the output.

2:32:10You have to regulate the input and figure it out on the way in. Look, >> so tell me, >> look, you know, I if I were in charge, I would have had very real concerns about a hyperscaler building their data center in Alberta and doing what they are doing in order to be able to power that data center.

2:32:28Um, I was less concerned um and more hopeful about what Telus is trying to do here because if we're going to build these things, the question is how do we build them best-in-class? How do we make sure that there's closed loop water usage? How do we make sure we're using the heat that is coming out to um heat communities, reduce the cost to rate payers, eliminate um you know eliminate some of the risks that we can eliminate?

2:32:51It's not a perfect answer and it's not a perfect set of outcomes. The question that we have to ask is if we are going to build data centers which are getting built all over the world and Alberta has a particular point of view on this, BC has a particular Taleeb as a individual has a particular point on whether I want these in my backyard or not. Um, we have to figure out how to make them as as good. I don't know if the word is good, but like you know good neighbors, how the impact of these is as much as possible neutral to positive and not negative. And so when government is talking about building guidelines, it is

2:33:30with that in mind because there is no value. You saw what's happened in Hamilton. You've seen what's happened in other places where communities have said, "Look, we don't want this in our backyard." Absolutely not. We're going to protest in this street and by the we're going to city council saying we don't want these anymore.

2:33:43>> Yeah. >> And that's that is the reality. We talked about social license earlier. That's the reality. If we present to Canadians the idea that we're going to jam something down your throat that is not well understood, that may not be what you want, that doesn't give a damn about the environment, that is going to create a low-level hum in your backyard, who the hell is going to say yes to that? But if you say to people, look, we're building these things. Here's the technology that we're seeking to use.

2:34:08Here are the environmental protections we're putting into place. Here's what you can expect. Here is what the social good is going to be coming out of this data center. Whether it's access to compute, whether it's access to capacity, whether it's access to whatever we're going to be able to provide. Here is the public good that is going to come.

2:34:23>> Yeah, that's the story we need to figure out, sir. That's the question. That's what we got to figure out. Like, do you believe that? It's Chris right here in the middle. I'm over here. Um, >> yeah. Look, unfair advantage. I can't see. I know. I'm sorry. Yeah. That's why I identify myself. Um, do you believe that there might be companies or governments that would pay an 8% premium for tokens that came from a clean green just indigenous owned hydropowered data center?

2:34:48>> You know, I think there are I I'm not I mean look >> like could that be our thing? Could that be what we export is like clean green just tokens? I think there is a reality that the world is looking down the barrel of that if we are not able to build the so there are companies that are saying if you can't build these things at scale we have real problems right that is a reality and so people are going to ask at what cost corporate cost and other cost are we going to have to build these things what do we have to put on the table and I think that's a very good conversation to have because

2:35:16the trade-off can't be free water free power free this free that for a data center in somebody's backyard the trade-off has to be we are prepared to make investments in that community. We're prepared to give back. Absolutely. And I think that is where we need to be headed and I think that's where public policy is heading because otherwise you're going to end up in a world where all of us including me are going to be like we're not building any more of these.

2:35:36>> So yeah, I think the answer is yes. >> You're on fire. Um this is Emily right here. She's got a question about health. >> You sort of >> Yes. Um yeah, I was so happy you brought up healthcare and I guess my question we're talking about Canadians across the country. We're talking about what we're experiencing in BC and when we think about these data centers, >> sharing healthcare information between provinces still is near impossible.

2:35:59>> When we think of pandemic preparedness and >> outbreak prevention in a hospital, we're dealing with Excel sheets still >> if you're lucky. >> If you're lucky. Yeah. And so I'm just wondering what are the conversations that are happening if you can comment on it for >> so many. Well, I'm sure, but I like what are the next steps to improve provincial data sharing? Can't build AI centers if we don't have the structures to actually share it.

2:36:25>> And even if you have a data center, if you don't have the legislative framework to share it, you have a problem. So, I'm going to take you back to 2011, which is like 15 16 years ago. I was asked by the provincial government then to do a review of what they call the alternative service delivery model. And one of the things that came out of that conversation was the fact that a physician at bedside in a hospital could not access patient records from the family physician, from the specialist, from the X-ray that they had, you know, down the hall, right? And so you spend 30 minutes, right? You spend the first 20 minutes going, "What the is going on here?"

2:37:10Sorry, pardon my language. What the heck is going on here? Where are the records? What are we pulling from? And then you have to make a best case diagnoses

2:37:33and how do you remove the actual barriers? The work is actually now happening and it's getting it is not we've figured it out within health authorities now I think in each province which is you know which has been no small feat and those of you in healthcare know that it's been torturous across provinces the conversations really started last year and the work is now starting but I can tell you that there is an absolute commitment to do this because it is in many cases a matter of life and death for patients and the the economic cost on the system of not doing it I think people are now realizing that you got to bite the

2:38:06bullet, figure it out now and so I'm hopeful that by the end of this year there will actually be a plan to to implementation. >> Yeah, I work firstand in this in the space. So hap would love to continue the conversation. >> Absolutely. One of the coolest things about our little network we got here is like we're all interconnected on group chats and stuff and so we can like come up barf out an idea in the morning and a bunch of people if it's a good idea will start working on activated. So this guy right here runs data centers, Rio. Um he's going to introduce himself in a sec. And he popped up this morning. He's

2:38:34like, "Man, I see a threat to my career." So I started spending like a thousand bucks a month on tokens and software and all these things and I'm learning it myself and like maybe we can run a pilot program here in BC where people are like upskilling and adop you like figuring this out for themselves but maybe somehow like subsidized or tax credited by like the government to pay for tokens. So then we developed a whole uh >> Yeah, I saw the I saw the petition thing. You saw the petition?

2:38:59>> Yeah. >> How, >> man? AI is incredible. >> Oh my god. [laughter] [applause and cheering] >> Wow. >> I'm speechless. Okay. Rene. >> Uh, hey Tib. Uh, happy to have you here. Uh, so the question is, >> I'm going to put you on the spot. Would you be would you commit to backing a bill to uh give AI subscriptions as tax credits for learning?

2:39:27>> Here's what I will do. Here's the answer. I'll give you two things. One is I think you should look at what's coming in the next budget because there's going to be a whole whole bunch of uh there's a big piece around upskilling >> and and making sure that people have access to AI, have the ability to know how to use it. You know, we just put a whole bunch of money on the table for this already in terms of training people.

2:39:46>> How much There's I think we 60 there's a lot. I'll give you the program called >> hundreds of millions of dollars. What's the program called? >> So I look I it's it's called the AI. You can get back to me. >> I'll get back to you. I'll send you the information. It's got some look you know how government it's got a long name but there are three announce not putting on the spot like that's the program for us.

2:40:04>> So there's three but there's three key things right. One is there are partners that we're going to be looking for to help train and retrain in AI. Number one. Number two is like you know the prime minister said every every student in this country will have their own AI agent, right? So that work is currently underway. The third piece around this is actually making sure that community organizations who are doing work and helping to skills train and retrain around AI have access to providers that can do this work in a meaningful way. So those three things are happening. In terms of the tax credit piece, that is a very interesting idea and what I will do

2:40:34is if you have the something on it, I've seen the the petition. I will actually send that directly. They're doing we're doing budget consultations right now. So I will feed that in directly >> and see if they can consider that. Give us one more day to revise it before you send it along.

2:40:46>> Okay. But look, listen, but this is this time sensitive. Very timesensitive. Very time sensitive. >> Um, we're putting the budget together like in the next month. >> Anna, welcome. >> Thanks. >> Hello. Um I was wondering um your thoughts around what we can learn from our failure to regulate earlier technologies, social media being kind of the current case in point and looking ahead toward the impact of AI because we're looking at um the public sector funding or backing some of this AI private sector development and uh we will end up having the public sector pay the costs of the impacts later on. So >> that's the question.

2:41:36>> It's a great question. So there is a 17-year-old kid that belongs to, as I mentioned, my wife's friend sitting on my couch right now who hates AI and is worried about exactly this. And he's right. And I think we have to be very very I think we have to be very um aware I think is the right word. be very very like clear in our own minds that doing this right right now is huge.

2:42:00Right? I look I spent the better part of the fall dealing with the fallout spring I guess dealing with the fallout from Tumblr Ridge, right? What happens? What happens when access to this technology unchecked ends up in the hands of people who are vulnerable and who are susceptible to what these chat bots as an example can do. Um, a very good friend of mine is a woman named Farah Nasser. Some of you will remember her from the evening news.

2:42:32her son asked their Tesla, asked Grock and their Tesla a question, her 13-year-old boy. And Grock's response was, "Send nudes." Right? This is like a well doumented story now, and it's real. And you know, the consequences of all of this on mental health, on society, on human relations, on our ability to depersonalize conflict into something that looks like a video game, we've seen this already, is very real. And so when we talk about when we talk about online safety, we talk about regulation, you talk about some of the bills that are coming in the fall, you will see some of this play out. I'm going to actually need all of you to come and speak up

2:43:10because there is an entire army of people who are saying any regulation, any effort to stifle is actually really, really bad. And it's not about stifling, it's about making sure that we actually have the license to do the big things that we need to do. And you do that by keeping people safe. So in the fall, and Chris, I'm going to call on you. We're going to have hearings on these bills.

2:43:30You need to make sure there's a really strong group of people that are pragmatists about this, but also understand the risk the risk profile that we need to get right on this. So, I will create as much opportunity as I can for as many people in this room to show up at committee and to speak. Careful what you wish for.

2:43:47[applause]

2:43:51I mean alternate to that is that those folks come out to BC and sit as you're doing tonight in this room and hear it live in a very organic method you know of people >> and not everybody wants to do this. >> Yeah, you know and there's and there's a >> you got like five more minutes in you.

2:44:10>> Yeah. And just in the 10 seconds there's a and the problem is the committee piece is a very formal process, right? Legislation comes we have there's a >> Yeah. But it's a new camera, >> right? It's a new >> I like look I like the road show. >> Hi, welcome. >> Hi. I have a question for education about AI. So my son here is 13 years old. I heard you talk about the 17 years old uh child as well.

2:44:36>> This is one of my concern as a parent. >> I'm constantly monitoring my son like every single day, every moment. I'm sure he loves it. >> He actually loved being here because everything that we talk about he actually acknowledged this is scary war and he wanted to know this is why he's here as well. He wanted [laughter] >> he he actually wanted to know that what what is the government is doing so to protect their vulnerable like they're not knowledgeable enough to even acknowledge what is out there that is scarier.

2:45:15>> It's a great question. It's a very very good question. We are right now working um with uh Vector in Toronto and Amy the two institutes in Edmonton to actually put together which are going to roll out this fall programs for teachers in classrooms to understand exactly how to teach young people about the use of AI and it is teacher it is educator focused but it is focused on teaching young people and it's not just about here's how you use AI quite the opposite it's about yes because they say figure it out they don't need us to tell them that It's what is the responsible use? What is the risks? What are the consequences?

2:45:49How do you manage your usage of this? How do you use it in a productive way? Not to replace thinking. Um, and it's and I and I and because it is actually led by educators as opposed to some random politician or, you know, an AI advocate, but actually by teachers and by educators working with the AI community. I think you're going to see some really good stuff from it. So, I'd love to hear what you think when they do roll it out. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

2:46:14>> Supposed to be the fall. Fingers crossed. >> Taleeb, I'm over here on the left hand flank. I got Gregory asking a question. Gregory, >> hey. Yeah, thanks for coming to talk to us. >> No worries. >> Oh. Oh, >> we're entering the lightning round. >> Okay. You keep it to 20, you keep it to five to seven.

2:46:30>> Okay. >> Minutes seconds. My my thought about it all is uh where it comes down a rubber meets the road and that's at the data itself and how do we stop ourselves Canada becoming the hinterland like we did with oil and trees and everything that we have to America and the world with our data. Is there value in our data? And that may be how you would treat the individual Canadian who has a lot of trust issues with AI, not just creatives or nonprofits, but the individual. How are you handling their data and do they get value out of that?

2:47:03>> And this is exactly this is exactly why data sovereignty matters and making sure we're not just handing it off to people for free. Absolutely. >> So that this is a big part of why the big red line that we're trying to draw on this with the US and other countries >> well internally as well. How do you bring the value of that to the individual?

2:47:20>> Well, I think this is where we actually have to talk to people what it is that we're trying to accomplish with data. And I think this is that's that is a second phase conversation. people don't even understand right now what data they we have we hold we own and how to actually do something with that and what what we're doing and I'll give you can I well take 10 seconds on this healthcare again going back to healthcare if you use US health care data to inform patient care in this country it does not work because healthcare outcomes in Canada are very very different healthcare indicators in Canada very very different and so we have to

2:47:51actually treat Canadian data for Canadians in a very very different way in terms of its utilization and its implementation in terms of some of the problems we're trying to solve really does make a big difference. It really does matter. >> You're killing it, man. >> So, I have twin 17 year olds and I'm wondering like what is the future of the job situation for, you know, the whole structure of jobs is going to change, what to expect, what do the youth need to be prepared for.

2:48:23>> I'm going to add a wild card to the top of your question. The wild card is we were talking about sovereignty earlier and I've been watching some videos this week of my um trusted sources around AI thought leadership and >> the newest thing I've heard this week is that like Anthropic might be the only company in the world in the future. This is like what current market projections predict is that in order to consolidate inference power, computational resources, capital, they're going to continue to scale hypers scale and they may be the only company in the whole world someday. It's we're sitting here talking about like sovereignty.

2:49:03These questions are like the the big the people who know the most about this in the whole wide world are like there's a significant shift going like maybe we're all just rearranging deck chairs. >> So how honest am I allowed to be when I see >> you do what you want to do man. So I came back. So we had a look, everybody's been coming through Ottawa to talk to us and you open AI's come to see us and cohhere and and anthropic and and I come out of these meetings and I and I sort of go home and I I reflect and it feels like I'm living a Bond movie, right?

2:49:37Like is this what was that thing? >> You're paying attention. What was that thing that that that movie where which Bond was you know >> acting like we watched it >> Skyfall, right? Was it Skyfall? Was it project Skyfall where the thing basically controlled human? Right. So like you're like I would be lying to you if I said look these are not thoughts that cross my mind.

2:49:55>> Um but I think we have to be real about two things. One is the technology is developing. It's moving. We have to figure out exactly how to make sure that whatever our place is going to be in it, we have the safeguards in place to protect Canadians, to protect our data, to protect who we are, and and and frankly to not fall into the trap of becoming completely owned by any single corporate entity or enterprise because that's not good for humanity and ultimately that's proven throughout history not to work, right? History has told us that a single dominant player never survives for the long term. Ask Kodak. All right.

2:50:27So uh but to your point >> jobs careers careers yeah >> there are two realities. One is that the human end of professions AI will never replace and so you see this now big upswing upswing in the trades. Why have we put $6 billion dollars into trades because there is an increasing need for people who actually build things and do things in this country and those are in some cases extremely well-paying careers and jobs for people. Um, AI cannot.

2:50:53Yeah, I mean, God, I say this now, but like robots and humans are >> I know you have to be careful just because moving so quickly, but but there are going to be people who have to direct that traffic and that is where humans come into this. I think we can't lose sight. We have to give kids a sense of purpose and sense of hope in what they're building. We have to be pragmatic and explain to them the importance of constantly retraining.

2:51:12Look, Matt, when I went to university, I showed up. I had no idea what the internet was. When I left my pine inca telnet was replaced by a web browser that was called Netscape, right? Like life changed, right? And that was in four years. That was between 1998 and I'm 80 myself and 1994 and 1998 my entire frame of reference changed, right? So we have to be ready and like we've all adapted and kids are resilient. They will adapt. We just got to give them the tools.

2:51:43>> I get asked all the time like what should I say? uh me and my kids saved up a college fund. Now it's time for them to spend their college fund. They came to me and they said, "Mom, what should I spend my money on?" And they're like, "I don't have an answer to that question."

2:51:53You know, like it's a very it's a very very real thing that um it's never been more hard to see into the future I feel like around where things are going, especially these very practical decisions like what should you go study for the next four years, son or daughter. >> In fact, like this is why this whole room exists actually is this is a resilience network. If you haven't figured it out, this is like us this is like us uncertain and a little bit afraid about the future but being proactive and positive and trying to put our stamp onto it. And so that that that is actually what's going on.

2:52:27>> It's a little bit like group therapy. It's excellent.

2:52:33>> I'm gonna give you the mic, but are you sure you need to talk again? >> It's very short. So I work with consulting and what I what we see with with clients is that we need AI. Not where, not how, not what is it going to solve, but we need AI. So it's almost like a FOMO that they need AI without a real reason why. And you know what's going to I don't know if it's a statement, but uh we're not able to solve that for the clients. We try to get in there, but it's still not a solvable solution. Not >> Yeah, >> I appreciate your contribution. There was a flurry of hands right here. Oh,

2:53:07Kevin, thanks for coming up, bro. >> Mr. Pixel Wizard. >> Oh, man. Okay, another tough one. [laughter] >> He's a professional creative, 20 years in film, television, and Hollywood and he's trying to figure out the industry. You know, >> there is a massive reliance right now on Nvidia as kind of the brute force of compute.

2:53:25>> And it's not the beall and endall. We're starting to see the needle move on more efficient compute. >> Um, better usage of energy, better usage of heat output. Is there any consideration in all of this data center conversation on using smart compute? And is there any provision for any Canadian frontier chip designers to get in on that equation?

2:53:51>> I look to drop it. >> The second part of your question, man, that's my like >> the technical term is I don't know what the Yes, I want sweet spot. I would like this. But here's what I would say. Here's what I would say. my my thesis and like again point of view of one this is not the government this is Taleeb's point of view so take it for what it's worth nothing um we all remember the server farms of the '9s >> I think that's where data centers are going to be in a decade maybe less I really do because I think as compute power I mean as as as you can do more

2:54:22with less as as as your GPU you know material ch all of these things change as the technical requirements as the as the hardware requirements change as things get smarter and quicker. You think about what my iPhone does versus what my I played Snake. You some of you remember Snake right on the old Nokia like how much have things changed over the course of the last short number of years.

2:54:47>> So I think we have to understand that what we're building today may actually not have any need in in five or 10 years. But between now and then, if you don't have those things, you can't get to where you need to be. So I think the short answer is on both. Yes.

2:54:59>> I got Catherine Warren right here. She's a in the entertainment industry. She's a thought leader and used to run a nonprofit industry association. Catherine, >> thank you so much. Uh, thanks Taleeb. I have a question about um China and the US with respect to Canada. So with this trade war heating up and with Carney's advances into strategic partnerships with China, how is that changing uh or al uh allegiances around data and some of these large infrastructure projects?

2:55:32>> So we have one allegiance and that's Canada. >> That's where it's going to start. One allegiance, it's Canada. We are going to be extremely careful when it comes to the when it comes to the US, which we are, and we are already extremely careful when it comes to China on what we will and what we will not do.

2:55:51Where the partnerships work for Canada, we will engage. Where they do not, where they put Canadians at risk, where they put Canadians data at risk, where they put Canadian IP at risk, not a chance we're going to go there. Um, and that applies to a lot of other countries as well, frankly. It's not just the US and and China. There are other places in the world that we have to be mindful. Now that said, >> the AI >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're the AI leaders, but there's an entire and I don't want to call it middle powers because we're hearing this a lot, but there's an entire second trunch of countries.

2:56:19>> No, do say it. It's actually a very interesting the middle powers AI strategy articulated real, right? This middle power AI strategy is very very real. the Germans, the French, um the the Nordics, even the, you know, other other parts of the world, the Singaporeans, they're all saying, "How do we actually do this together as a bit of a as a bit [clears throat] of a bull work against the the two hgeimons that we have to manage?" Because we actually do need to have if we have sort of combined capacity among nations that share values that we can trust, we actually create a third option for people. To be fair, Evan Solomon called a hyperscaler and a hedgeimon, not two

2:56:54hgeimons. >> Yeah. Um I can say what I think. I can say what I think. >> I know. Um this really speaks to the heart of the matter in some ways, right? Because like uh anthropic and uh and open AI, they come out and they say like, you know, this is the frontier and this is what and then China's like hold my beer and watch this >> and then they go ahead and re-engineer the whole thing and push the the leading edge on the open source front, you know, and this is actually probably the sweet spot for Canada. I might throw the cush here as long as he doesn't burn the place down because um the sweet spot the

2:57:26middle power solution is like can we run distributed open-source AI systems that aren't the hyperscaler Silicon Valley anthropic you know business model and can that be our unique differentiating factor the thing that we offer as export to the world with Germany Australia Amiradis Finland all the people he's talking about like that's what they're going after is like some sort of Um, >> yeah. Um, okay. Hyper lightning round and the result I I I just want to say one more thing. Um, oh, hey, Elma. Um, we're extending our time right now, right? So, once we all get through this conversation, we're going to have to clean up after ourselves and get the home. All right? Because we're like

2:58:09uh we're not going to do the whole hour. We got cookies still and some drinks still, but it's going to be a short short period of time on the on the end side. Um, Alma, I got Alex. I'm clocking him. He had a question earlier. >> Hi, thank you. Uh, I'm Alma Barranco. I I've been working for the last 30 years, especially in health. I've been building AI systems for health. And to your point, I think it's very very important what you said about using different data for Canadian systems, right? The problem there as I said I've been building these AI systems for health for 30 years and access to that data is almost near

2:58:49impossible. >> Correct. >> So what are we doing from the provincial point of view for us developers building these solutions that we can actually train our systems with Canadian data. >> So one is you got to ask the province that question. what I can speak to is what Kaihigh and others are doing which is going to be very very important. Um and that is to actually start to open up access to the data anonymize data. This very very important obviously um getting different systems to talk to each other is you know complicated but the provinces have agreed to do it. Kai is leading this effort. there's going to be other folks that are going to be

2:59:30actively involved in this. But the provincial health authorities here and across the across the country have now figured out that they actually need this to improve not just patient care but also to make things less expensive and to increase economies of scale. So it's now being done out of necessity and as I said before like I think this is going to be a very transformative year in that and by the end of the year we should start seeing some actual outcomes where you'll have the data that you need to be able to do the things that you're talking about. That's what they've told us. Anyways, >> thanks Taleeb.

2:59:57>> That guy's had his hand up for a while. I went back and asked him what his question was and it took him a minute and a half to think about what it was. He forgot. That's Alex. >> Are you sure, Alex? >> He was patient. >> My question has to do with capital because I thought it was really telling in what you said and it goes back to the sovereignty conversation too which is super important set of uh questions that are being asked.

3:00:23>> Lightning round >> capital. Why do we have to copy the US VC model? Why don't we p uh pursue a uniquely Canadian path for example by mirroring something like the Alaska Permanent Fund or the Norwegian sovereign wealth fund where we actually charge people for mineral extraction resource extraction and and use that use that money no and use that money to actually fund the the capital projects that we need here and and don't come back at me with the carne sovereign wealth >> no no I'm not going to I'm actually not going to I'm actually not going cuz I couldn't have paid you enough to ask me that question.

3:01:03>> So, I actually think there are three things I'm going to say. >> Maybe you did pay him. He's the one you kept insisting that I call. [laughter] >> I see. I see. I clocked you a mile away. >> Look, there are sovereign wealth funds and then there are sovereign wealth funds. All right. Like I'm thinking about what I want Canada to have and I have spoken to the prime minister about this is I would like for us to have something like what Tamasic has in Singapore. I would like something that is that does exactly that. One of the things that we need in order to be able to get there is to break the psychology in this country of

3:01:36pension funds, of banks, and of of the case and others who seem, I would say, reticent as being charitable um to invest in Canadian innovators. They will act with speed to jump on the bandwagon in other countries. You look at investment profiles of some of these funds, they've done extremely well and kudos to the teachers in Ontario who are extremely well.

3:02:01>> Are you talking about John Rufo? >> John, >> yeah. Yeah. So, and like look what Mavericks are trying to do now. Look, I think that there are three things as I said there three things that are going wrong in let me lost my train of thought. Sorry. One is pension funds need to realize the opportunities in this country. Number two is Canadian investors and if there are investors I'm speaking to you, you hear me say this.

3:02:23Canadian investors are profoundly riskaverse when it comes to investing in technology, but will write a $10,000 or $100,000 check for a mind that may never see the light of day for reasons I will never understand. Truly. Truly. So, we need to break the psychology in this country and actually accept that we built some pretty good stuff here and our investors need to get with the program because if you're going to talk about Canadian sovereignty, put your money where your mouth is. That's what I would say.

3:02:55Stay tuned. Budget. The third thing that I would say, this budget is going to be very interesting for that question. The third thing that I would say is that unlocking capital in this country is something that is going to take a bit of an effort by people in some sense who are coming back to this country or coming to this country. Hi S.

3:03:17>> Wild salmon, >> right? Wild salmon. Wild Salmon. Um, >> you just nicknamed that. That that that's going to stick. Yeah. >> Um, >> and by the way, his wife is one of the most incredible pianists. I know Abdul. I'm biased. I know Abdul, >> you know, and but yeah, so like we're related, so I'm I'm biased.

3:03:38>> Uh, but investors who are coming back or who are coming need to actually put pressure on the investment community in this country to say, "Look, if you want us to build Canadian companies, we actually need to see Canadian capital." Because having a company headquartered in Vancouver, but 80% of its ownership being somewhere else doesn't actually give you a Canadian company. It gives you a company that lives in Canada that's owned by somebody else. And I'm not saying that we should not take foreign capital by any sort. But we have so much money sitting on the sidelines in this country that is risk averse and we need to find a way in government is going to play a role in this. The

3:04:11investment summit that's coming up in three weeks is actually going to inspire, I think, Canadian investors to get off their asses a little bit, invest in this country. And I think it's going to Sorry. happen soon. >> Well, it's happening on September 15th, so let's let's go with that and see where we go. But I think you're absolutely right. We got to fix this.

3:04:27>> You're a stud. Thanks for showing up with no notes and no presentation, having a real conversation with us. I really appreciate you. >> I will distribute [applause] >> I will distribute to all of you my slide deck later. >> This was just a a big Trojan horse to let you know that you have an AI think tank in your writing that wants to be having a seat at the table. Sir, if you ever got like questions about what's going on, I know you're the man with the finger on the pulse, but so are we.

3:04:54>> Let us know how we can collaborate with you, man. Thank you so much for being here. YEAH, [applause]

3:05:07>> thank you for coming. Thank you for bringing your questions. Thanks for having like the right spirit about that thing. Not a single person tried to burn him to the ground and I really appreciate that. That's this is not the place for that. just kept the light shining in his arm. >> I I think he's hyper smart and welcomes a challenge and I bet he hasn't had a >> Thank you. Thank you.

3:05:27>> This makes me This makes the job worthwhile. >> Thank you. I really do appreciate you. I see you and I appreciate you. Um guys, we got to be out of here in 15 minutes. So, here's the deal. Um we're not allowed to eat or drink in this room, but we've been eating and drinking because we're good. So, clean up after your neighbor and yourself. Give some cards to some people. Um say goodbye on your way out. But thank you very much for coming, for being a part of this.

3:05:49We're doing future proof. We're doing the BCAI thing. Thanks for being here.