Diane Laidlaw: Story Over Spectacle: AI, Representation & Human Emotion｜BC +AI Film Club

0:03I've been lucky enough to speak meet and speak with a wonderful woman by the name of Diane Laidlaw and she's known online on YouTube as Afro Futcha. F U T C H A and she is doing some amazing work. It's like music video funky jazzy imagery dream world stuff. It's really really cool. And we got to talking. She was nice enough to let me interview her.

0:41It was supposed to be 20 minutes and we talked for about an hour and a half. So I had to like shove everything into 20 minutes and I tried to grab the best portions of our conversation. And a lot of it was around diversity and accessibility and the hunger of the audience for niche content. And she had some really great insights to share with us. And unfortunately she can't be here on purpose purpose in person because she lives in the UK. So this is her way of showing up here. Also I've noticed that there's a bunch of people over here. There there are seats over here if you would like to sit down and rest your legs.

1:29Yeah, we've got a little little horseshoe situation. It's actually an L-shaped couch over here if you haven't noticed. It's very lovely. So settle in. We've got 20 minutes of amazing deep dive discussion between Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So so there is some clips in here that are from an upcoming short that's going to be doing the festival circuit from Diane. So we just respectfully ask everyone to it just gets us gets gets Diane in a little bit of problem if if stuff ends up online. So please do not film anything. Don't take any pictures.

2:05Just out of respect for her sharing this early access to some of the clips from her short. So thank you very much. All of my pieces have been me kind of regurgitating that feeling of something needs to come out. I need to say this. I need to express this. This is how I'm feeling and I think my work has resonated with a lot of people because that's what they recognize in my work. It's not just you know, random fight scenes and you know, medieval warrior walking through the forest. It's It's not that and not This is no like shade to those people who do those stories at all. But I think I come from it from a very humanistic point of

2:46view that people just Oh, this is different. And it's it's less I think when people watch my stuff it's less about whether it was made with AI and more about how they resonated with it. And that means a lot to me cuz I've I'm trying to get out. So if you can resonate and understand what I'm saying, that's that's perfect. Really it's perfect.

3:10So from 20 from 2008 I keep saying 2028 it's for so so long ago but it is long ago. In 2008 I started working for myself. And any little job that I could find I would do it. So but it had to be something which I loved. So I was always doing something creative. I did a bit of radio work and then I had that I was a DJ.

3:37And the radio station said, "Hey, do you want to help manage the other people that come on the radio station and their shows?" And I was like, "Perfect." And then I ended up getting pregnant by one of the guys who was there. He ended up being my partner and we had a baby together. And then when my son was born I was like, "Well, I don't want my son going to nursery. I want to home school him." And but I can't obviously do radio anymore cuz I'm breastfeeding and whatnot. So I ended up teaching myself web design and I did that for 15 years.

4:09I was very successful at it. So I think that at times when people's jobs are being taken it really makes you think. Every redundancy, every economic crisis that has happened has spurred more entrepreneurs, spurred more CEOs, spurred more of these people because we become much more creative when under pressure. And if at this point you have nothing at this point, if you've lost your job or you have nothing, so why not start from a place of having nothing and build up from there? Do you know what I mean? And I think that where technology may take away some jobs, I think it will start creating new jobs as well. And it's those pockets that people who have got

4:54that frame of mind will the frame of mind of I need to be more self-sufficient or the if you're a person who is I think you and Isabel were talking about this the other day. The generalist. If you've got general skills like you will going to be way more needed now than than before. So I don't I'm not scared about those moments because I feel like there's going to be a whole bunch of like new businesses that will come arise. That that that software developer who's now had to leave this particular company will then start to make the piece of software that you always wanted to make. That person who was an actress who couldn't get the job can now

5:41take a picture of herself and put herself in any film that she wants to. That woman who wrote the song who couldn't get anybody to help her produce it can now go on sooner. So I feel like even though jobs may be taken, it may be left what is left is the question of what what do you want to do? Rather than You know what I mean?

6:03What do you What do you find a passion in? What's your What what wakes you up? Because this thing of working for someone else and making them rich is they will get rid of you in a heartbeat. And we've been saying this for years. We've got memes about it all over the place. Like lose your dick. The boss is just going to replace you with someone else the next day. So if that's the case, be your own boss. And find a job. Create a job. I had no idea about web design. I taught myself while I sat at a computer my son sat here on a I had two computers. So I had one computer I was learning web design and

6:41another computer where my son sat next to me and he was learning his ABCs. You know, so I think self-sufficiency and what is it that you want to do will be more open. Like it will level those playing fields for everybody now to do so. And maybe it maybe our life isn't to work. I'm lucky enough to I'm very like I don't know many people like this but I'm very lucky to be able to say that for for the past 16 years now I've literally been doing what I want and getting paid for it. And that is something I would want for everybody to be able to wake up when you want, do the work you want, and be happy in the work

7:24that you do. And if at any point you feel like, "Oh, I need to change it." you have that ability to switch to the next thing. I remember I was speaking at a panel by it was the Bionic Awards in London. I think it was in December that I went. And as we were sitting down they were asking questions at the end of it. Like the the the audience was asking questions. And somebody was saying, "Why is it that every time I look at AI stuff it's just like action and people trying to copy Star Wars and copy this and copy that?" And I basically said, "Listen, let them get it out of their system because that's all it is. It's

8:09just people watching these things like they they they they love all of that stuff. They need to get that story out. And I think the more that they get that story out is the more that they will unearth the other stories that we also want to actually see and want to. But you need to just like just get that little bit out first.

8:33And then once you get that out, then you can focus on the other stuff, you know? So It's like it pollutes my feeds all the time. I think maybe that's another reason why cuz I don't think my work is that extraordinary. But I think the reason why my work stands out is because it's not that. It's not the action. It's not the Marvel. It's not any of that. It's real like human emotion stuff whether it's realistic or animation. It's um got some narration in it. Or it could be quiet quiet as in you know, there's no dialogue whatsoever. And people can relate to that. People want to see that.

9:12And I think like I said, I just think that there's a lot of surface level stories that we're seeing but I think those need and you know, maybe some of my stuff is surface level because I have told people, "Listen, I was experimenting last year." This year I would love to do more serious work in regards to horror.

9:30Horror is my one of my favorite genres. So I didn't I had to skim the cream off the top. You know, but then when I get to the actual drink I think that's when more of my stories will start coming out. And I feel like that will be the same for everybody else. They just you know, need to get that one last Superman frame out of their out of their system and then you know.

10:02>> Do it.

10:45The other thing I've I've judged a couple of um AI festivals recently actually. I'm never going to do that again. Well, I'm I'm always going to judge festivals but not like so many in such a short period of time. That was dreadful. I probably watched about 200 movies. Um Yeah, but it's been very interesting to say the least because you get to see the talent which is out there and you get to also see the stories that they're trying to tell. But you also get to see how people try to um keep you like there's some films that you can watch Well, there's some stuff that you can watch and you're not going to be grabbed or you're you're going to

11:24be time watching like when is this going to finish because I I still don't get what's going on here or whatever. So, I think the I think keeping people engaged is a skill set outside of um hijacking your brain. I think that there's cuz I don't think about when I'm writing my stories or I'm animating my stories, I'm not thinking about your your your brain stem while I'm doing it. I'm thinking about how I've seen other people done like openings to their films or I'm thinking about how I want the person to feel while they're watching the film.

12:05Like I want to take you on a journey but I don't want the journey to be so obvious in the beginning of what's going on. So, I'm going to tease a couple of things here and there and that teasing aspect really came from the gaming world where you would play a game and they all have these little things called Easter eggs which are like little things that they'll place. So, for me I I kind of look at it like that. Like I want you to be able to watch something that I've made and you've watched it once and you get the general idea about what's going on but then you watch it again and then something else pops up at

12:38you because I placed an Easter egg in there that's oh okay, well, maybe she was talking about this. Oh okay, well, maybe she was talking about this or whatever. So, some of my works I've I've kind of done that in but I think being and this is why story is so important because what keeps you engaged is the story. It's not the graphics, not necessarily the fighting scene, it's not even really the dialogue. It's where that story is going and I think there's a lot of great amazing people out there that know how to use the tech but we are still waiting on the the the same amount of people who are magnificent at storytelling. And for me,

13:19someone who's great at storytelling is someone who I can watch their film and I don't even know that 10 minutes has just gone past or I don't know Do you know what I mean? I wasn't clock watching. Me and my ADHD, I'm clock watching all the time. So, if I'm watching your stuff and I'm watching your stuff and I've like wow, 15 minutes has gone past or even just 3 minutes has gone past and I didn't know or I'm yearning for more, I know that person's got great storytelling ability.

13:48So, yeah, I'm always I'm always championing um the you know, step away from the computer and think about story first and um the the tech and the gadgets and the tools, they're going to they're fantastic like but don't focus all your time on them. Focus on the story because you can have great graphics and a story and no one's going to watch it.

14:11No one's going to watch that. So, they'll say oh, that looks good and then move on to the next but you haven't left an impact. You haven't made them way and feel something or think something or analyze something. So, yeah. Absolutely and again, I was literally like today I was writing a piece about that too, girl. What the hell?

14:34That's so funny because I was expressing um the same and I've noticed this from Midjourney days from way back in the day when I used to play around with Midjourney and I would ask for a specific demographic and I would ask for a black woman for instance and I'm very much into like the 1970s era.

14:53So, it would be like a the black exploitation kind of era and they would give me a woman who's got like this absolutely perfect um um afro but then her features wouldn't necessarily be of that of a um quote unquote typical African-American woman. Um there'll be times where I would create a piece of art and I'll say make her skin a little bit lighter and then all of a sudden she's gone from an African woman to a Hispanic woman. Gosh, the amount of times the amount of times I've uploaded my photo and I maybe cuz I have a naturally uh slim nose that every time I would upload my photo into Midjourney and I'll try to get it to use me, it would put me

15:42as a Hispanic woman every single time. I just stopped using it for that particular purpose. But but I would also notice that if I would say things like um an Indian woman walking down the street, it would give me a poor Indian woman walking down the street. And then and then I recently well, about a year ago, I found that Midjourney was um multilingual. So, I took the same prompt um Indian woman walking down the street and I translated it into Bengali Bengali and I used the translation in Midjourney and it gave me a way better image of an Indian It gave me a realistic image of You see what I'm saying? So, then I

16:31started playing around and I'm like okay, well, let me use the language that they use in in Nigeria. Let me use the language that they use in in Thailand and translate that and see what happens and it would give you a way more realistic image of that particular demographic or region. So, what I was seeing in real life is that when I'm using English words to ask for um a particular look, a particular demographic, it would give me the western version of how they would see that particular person but then when you use original native language, it would give you the native the the native It was almost like um if somebody's if somebody said to me um

17:20you know, how's London? And I'll say okay, London's cool, you know, we have Buckingham Palace and we have this, that and the third and whatever. It's a very generic way of me talking about London. But then if my friend says, "Hey, when did you go to Hackney? How was Hackney?" I'll say oh, it's all right but there was this chip shop around the corner that had the the the I can get more into detail and I think that's maybe where the language model kind of sits where it's like oh, you're coming from here.

17:49Let me give you the unearthed version. Let me give you the real version. When I'm speaking English, it's now trying to be nice and dainty and give me the the Indian woman with the perfect sari and and it's like no. Yeah, they're getting the tourist version. They're getting the tourist guide version of your culture which is interesting cuz I I Now when you were talking about it, I can remember when Deep Seek came out. In the early days of Deep Seek, what I really really applauded it for was its sensitivity to all of that. So, I was able to put in or or or unsensitivity to all of that, shall I say? Whereas if I wanted to talk about a

18:34particular culture, it wasn't going to give me the tourist version. It was going to give me a very like in your face, no, I studied this culture. I'm part of this culture type of thing and not just the well, they kind of do this and they kind of do that. It's like well, who's they?

18:49Um so, I feel that it's it's it's it's interesting but the Chinese models to me seem a little bit more open when it comes to other people's culture and possibly how you speak about them. When it comes to the imagery, it's still getting there but in terms of like Deep Seek as a model, I found it very good for cultural awareness um for sure. Um some of the others, it's just um I'm not sure.

19:21I'm still fighting with it exactly. Um and it was one of the reasons why I wanted to do uh Quiet, Please was because that was a a very dear story to me with my son who's neurodivergent who back in the day would have a lot of issues with sound in general. And um when I was thinking about the story and I was telling the story to someone, she was like, "You need to work on that story." Because you saw how my face and my body kind of lit up as I'm explaining, "Hey, it's about this kid who's got like issues of noise and then he sees this guy who's sitting on a bench and he's

20:04wearing headphones." And um she was like, "You need to write that story. You need to write it." So, I wrote the story. I There was like no dialogue in the story whatsoever, but it's really personal to me and it's really personal to a lot of people who've got who themselves may suffer from that or who have got children who who suffer from that as well. And I think those are the type of stories that I feel like we need to see more of, you know? Um stories that we all have those stories as well. Do you You know, we all have individual stories about little things that goes on in our lives that if we were to make it into a

20:45film, someone would sit there and be like, "I can relate to that." I can relate to that. And I think with the um neurodivergent thing, what I've noticed is how healing it is when people get to see themselves in other people who are talking about their neurodivergency. There's a sense of belonging, there's a sense of understanding, there's a sense of grace that you can now give yourself instead of this shame that you may have been carrying. So, I'm I'm I feel like these stories, when we hear more of them and we can like I'm telling the story from the point of view of a black boy who's going through this. Do you know what I'm saying? Um and I feel like

21:23that's also key cuz it's representative of these young boys who may be autistic or may have autism that have got stories and no one writes about stories of black boys with with neurodivergency. No one does it. So, you know, it's it's a key It's an It's an avenue for me to express that because I got the tools and it's an avenue for me to express that because I have the experience as well a little bit. So, yeah.

21:50What a special collection of observations and experiences. Um Mayumi, please please come up. That was amazing. Um thank you for for for bringing her into our world here. You know, a a large part of what I know to be um what makes community so special is it's it's really easy to kind of like look at the hyper-local experience of community cuz that's within your reach, right? But community really grows when we get to intersect and interconnect with broader communities from from near and far. So, uh speak to us about like how you got introduced to Diana and you know, the importance of like the reach of your community outside of your own backyard.

22:37Mm, that's like a multi-layered question there, Kevin. Um yeah. So, the easy easy answer is I was introduced to Diane through um a company that we're working with to develop our own IP and she is one of the other creators on there. And and the last few clips there is Quiet, Please. So, that is going to be um that's going to be released this summer.

23:04I believe they're talking about June or July, which is why we asked for no videos because it's a it's on under wraps right now. Um and in what I do, I'm always kind of looking for people who have stories, who want to get them out, who come from underserved communities. And the reason why it's important to me is I mean, twofold twofold. Uh one is just from a very practical standpoint because my background is actually in operational finance and I saw firsthand over and over and over again why or how um women and gender non-conforming people were passed over for promotions, were passed over for jobs, were not getting credit for their work, were um

23:59you know, really doing the work and and not getting lauded for it. And that really pissed me off. And I >> I'm pissed off with you. That's insane. Yeah. It really really made me angry and and I was the one who was asking questions cuz I'm that person in the room and I was getting the answer, "Well, because this is the way it's done." And that just wasn't good enough for me. So, I'm always looking for who those people are and where those stories are coming from and if there is a way that I can help increase their reach in some way. If I can leverage what I have, whatever it is in whatever small capacity that I can

24:43to help them reach new people. And the other thing is I really believe that we're coming to the end of this one-size-fits-all entertainment era. Um I don't need another Marvel movie. I don't I don't I mean, and I love Star Wars, but I don't need more Star Wars. So, like Unless it's Andor. Unless it's Andor.

25:07>> Andor is so good. Andor is so More Andor, less Star Wars. Yeah. But but that's just what I mean, right? Like it's there's like Andor is wonderful because it's heartwarming and it's humanizing and it really touches you on an emotional level. And I think the story of the average person really touches us on an emotional level.

25:32And we need more of those stories that we can relate to to come out into the world. And and that's that's why I do this. That that is such a perfect segue cuz I wanted to talk to you about your uh prompt challenge submission. What a beautiful touching piece. Like, you know, you you took the the the marker of like using uh sound to tell story in the lessons that we learned last month and you know, dovetailed into this challenge and really brought that into emotional affect. Like it was so much stronger because of the decisions that you made in sound that made the visuals even more powerful. Tell us about that process about getting in touch with, you know,

26:17something obviously very personal and um you know, digging into your humanity and and and you know, finding that that balance between like honoring and respecting yourself and creating something really beautiful and passionate. Mm, yeah. I mean, okay. Even though even though my life, my career up to now has been really around numbers and finance, um I I didn't start off that way. Like I wanted to be an animator when I was little, younger. I've always been little. Um but it just wasn't a career choice that was available to me at the time. So, >> But tall in spirit I would say.

27:00My mother is 4'10" and she has big energy. Yeah. And and so like my background was in drawing and painting and writing poetry and writing stories and and that's that's where, you know, my my childhood and my teens and into my early 20s, that's where I lived. And so I've always had that inside me and and I've realized through these tools now that we have that I can't really do 15 seconds of just something. Like there's always got to be a story behind it. And um and the yeah, the avenue has really become cathartic for me.

27:48Um I mean, almost better than therapy, really. And and that was that was based on my own experience. So, I had a friend that I lost. I'm sorry.

28:03And I didn't realize I was carrying that around with me. What an absolutely stunning way to honor your friend. And thank you for sharing that with us. Thank you.

28:23This is what it's all about. You're going to get me teary, girl. And and really, so I think I started thinking about him because he was a phenomenal artist. And um he was also a big tech geek. And I look at all of these tools and I'm like, "Oh my god, he would have loved this so much if he'd been around a little bit longer." Yeah, no kidding. No kidding.

28:46Wow, what That's power, right? Like do you feel that? That's amazing. Thank you for like embarking on that, sharing that. You know, that this is really powerful and intimate stuff and and this is this is what makes this a forum. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.