How to Use AI in Filmmaking: Insights from Dorothy Pang on Art Direction and Creativity

0:00Incoming transmission from the future Vancouver AI community meetup. >> Kevin, uh, leader of our AI film club, would you please come up here and introduce, um, Dorothy? >> You bet. Hang on. Let me, >> please, hold your >> um, this is Kevin. He's my right-hand man and all this kind of stuff. He also runs our AI film club where he hosts and gives a very compelling series of keynotes himself. All right, sir.

0:28Thank you, sir. Um, how you doing everybody? It's been a little while. Um, we truly have um the most modest rock star you'll ever meet in our midst tonight. Uh, Dorothy uh uh we we we had been trying to get together uh on at the film club for several months. She was just rocking too hard internationally to be able to be in town at the same time.

0:56But we finally made it happen in May. And what she shared about her craft, her background, her passion, her way of working the new frontier of just what the heck it is to present yourself into the world in this new frontier of AI film making was so generous and heartfelt and we got so much out of it.

1:19Um, and I can't wait for you to see, you know, just what she's accomplished in the mere, uh, where are we, 90 days since then. So, uh, Dorothy, I'm so glad that you're here on the main stage tonight. It's, uh, you're in for a real treat. Um, not just creatively, but as a human being as well. Please welcome to the stage Dorothy Freaking Pang, y'all.

1:50Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, >> thank you. >> Oh my gosh, thank you guys so much. I have to carry paper because I get anxious speaking. So, you guys seem really nice though, so hopefully it all goes well. Yeah. So, it's honestly so nice to meet you guys. What a pleasure. I had didn't know there was going to be a barbecue, so that was pretty amazing. Yes.

2:14>> So, my name is Dorothy. I am a full-time AI artist, creative director, and filmmaker. Um, I don't come from a traditional film background. Um, but somehow today I find myself um a creative lead on this Hollywood movie um directed by Doug Lyman called Killing Satoshi um which is one of the first uh full feature films. So, it's full hybrid feature film with Hollywood actors um integrating AI fully. So, I'm on the post-production team as one of the creative leads and it's going to be going to theaters which is really really crazy. It's uh it's going to be like an hour and a half and for those who've made AI videos, yeah, an hour and a

2:59half. Yeah, it's uh it's been keeping me busy, that's for sure. Um, so a little bit about me. Uh, I didn't make a career out of creative work until later in life. Um, and my path was anything but traditional. I actually came from the fashion and tech industry. Um, and creativity was always running in parallel, but I kind of just knew in my heart I was meant to do something more creative. Um, so I was always searching and I've I've done many different career paths and I've come across this which is pretty wild. Um, I also have a bit of an acting background that I explored on the side and that's kind of how I got

3:41exposed to being on set for TV, film, um, commercial sets and I'm just such a lover of film. Um, I didn't go to film school, but I've studied films critically since all my life. Uh I did film studies in high school and um I really love film and that's the reason why I'm doing what I'm doing right now.

4:06Um because I really want to create and tell stories. So my design film making is completely self-taught. Um I taught myself everything on how to edit. Um, and I'm really excited to share with you guys probably at the end one of my short films. So, how I accidentally became an AI filmmaker. I want to tell you guys a little bit about my journey um and some of the opportunities that are available for people in the space. It's still very new and tons of opportunities for those who are interested.

4:42So, before AI tools, I actually just created videos. I created social media videos and that's how I taught myself editing um from the start. But when AI kind of hit the market in 2023, probably early 2024, I started playing around with Midjourney. Um so my partner is also an AI filmmaker. Um and I got really inspired to create images. I think that's actually the best place to start. Um Midjourney is an amazing playground for testing out styles. You can mix up different styles. Um, I turned childhood drawings, my signature childhood style drawing from four years old into a live action figure. Um, I took my personal photography and remixed it and made it really weird. Um, so it's

5:30such a I realized it was a it's like a supercharged creative canvas um to create and that's the spirit in which I've always really approached AI. Um it's creativity, playing and creating. Um so it helps me visualize dreams, emotions and it's really its own language and I want to tell you more about how I do that. Um so for those who've actually tried image generation, um can I get a show of hands? Who's who's ever generated an image? Cool. That's a lot of people.

6:06That's amazing. Um, I I know when I first started it can be really challenging. It can be challenging to actually get something that you like. Maybe that's even up to your standard. Um, but I assure you my first images kind of sucked. Um, and it's because I did it again and again, I swear if you do it a thousand times, 2,000 times, 10,000 times, your images are going to just get better. It's just an it's just having that t tenacity to keep going.

6:36Um, so yeah, I really encourage you guys if you've ever played and given up, which some people have told me, they're like, "Oh, I played with Mid Journey for two days and I gave up." Um, keep going cuz there's there's way more things you can discover. And I think if you even approach it with with childlike uh wonder and not be going for an outcome and just more of discovery that can also really change your mindset when it comes to creating images or videos.

7:06So how this all happened was I created in public. So I started making images, videos, films and I started posting them on my social accounts. I entered film making competitions, international ones, local ones. Um, and it helps if you win, but you also just meet other filmmakers. And I made a lot of friends along the way. And that's how work started coming in. I created a portfolio of short films with range and people started reaching out whether it was for commercial work um and and I'll tell you more about that.

7:49Oh, and I wanted to tell you guys a little bit um more of how I got a lot of empowerment through um AI film making. So, when I was doing acting on the side um I did it for a year or two. Um I used to do a lot of auditioning. Um I also did scene study which I love. Um which is really going deep into um scenes and story. Um, so when I was auditioning, I probably done over a hundred auditions and you get rejected a lot. Um, you often don't hear back. You don't know, you don't get feedback and it like it's it's very challenging. So, as a part-time actor, I actually felt

8:34that um I needed to create a channel or a place for myself to create because if you're not getting the green light to be a part of these creative projects, commercials, film, TV, then I have to create my own channel um to do that. And I think that's really healthy and it was a really healthy way to um to create that empowerment. Um because the thing with acting is that even if you land a role, you don't get to control the story. You don't get to write and truly be a part of the creative team. You are just a part of the execution. So this is a this is one of the things I really

9:14discovered along the way, the empowerment of writing your own story and putting your POV um into your work. Um, and that's that to me is one of the most magical things about AI film making that it's so accessible um and can be used for good from passion projects to paid work. >> Yeah. I wanted to share with you guys um there's a lot of work opportunities I see all the time in this space. So, I mainly work freelance in the documentary space, commercial space, and the film space. Um, I typically work freelance, but I've worked full-time the last couple months on Doug Lyman's movie.

10:00And the type of paid work that is most common, I'm going to share with you guys um a definitely AI artists. huge demand for AI artists, good and reliable AI artists um from all projects across the board, especially the commercial space. Um that is that is going to continue to grow and has been the biggest opportunity I think um for AI. There's just a lot of people looking to hire artists for commercial projects. Um after I created one of my short films last October, um I had an agent reach out to me from Europe who represent me for commercial work. So that is one avenue as well to get work. If you can you know get a good portfolio going

10:41sometimes these agencies reach out to you and you will they will find work find commercials that fit you and you can join bigger groups um and whatnot. Um because earlier this year I worked a couple months on a big commercial for the World Cup for this European company and it was a really great experience.

11:00So in the documentary space, that's another really interesting application for AI. Um, so the documentary space does so much B-roll. So the main the main footage obviously are the interviews, um, maybe articles, but there's a lot of B-roll. And so what I've been hired to do before, and I did this for a Vice documentary, um, is to create the B-roll using AI. So I get a shot list and I help deliver these shots. They're usually just a part of people's storytelling. So there might be just an interview of say a murder documentary, someone talking about someone's childhood maybe and there's just no footage for their childhood, there's no footage for them as a teenager. So it's a really great space

11:50for AI to just imagine what that could be. Um, so that's one thing that I think there's work out there for. Another place is micro dramas. Um, tons of these little micro drama companies hiring. I was really lucky early this year. Um, this one micro drama company wanted to run a a test and they flew me up to San Francisco to work with some actors for a week and I helped make this micro drama which was really fun. Um, so ton I know there's tons of work there and they're looking for storytellers, full AI and also hybrid.

12:27What else? Um, there's a ton of new corporate jobs that are appearing all the time uh with AI as a part of the job. Um, so last year uh I worked with Amazon Music in this very experimental role with two other people as their first gen AI designer. Um, it was just a three-month contract and we basically just taught them a bunch of things. Um, I looked at their product roadmap and I looked at how they could actually integrate AI into their software. Um, which is a really fun task for me. Um, so these opportunities exist. So I encourage you u maybe set up a keyword keyword email. Sometimes I still get emails coming to me that I set up a

13:13keyword for AI or something else. Um, and these opportunities will just pop up into your inbox and you never know. All right. So, the next slide was going to say, Dom, see, I'm lucky. I I I printed this out, right? No slides. I was going to say, uh, lessons from the industry. I was going to talk a little bit about what I've learned and just some myths about AI film making um for those who and it's good for people who've never done it or also people who are in it as well. Um so the first myth I hear all the time is that AI is just about prompting. Um a lot of the the haters will say, "Oh, it's so easy. You

13:58just write a sentence." Um, so while it has become very easy to create a nice photo, um, even kind of a a sloppy video, >> what I believe is really hard is to actually create something that's good. That remains the same, sorry, that remains the same as traditional film and video. You really need to put thought and detail into it. So the first thing is art direction. when I create work um and let's say if I didn't put in any thought and I just put in some generic prompts I get back the most generic images and my videos will look like the most average thing with a very gray blue color palette and it will lack you know

14:41vibrancy humanness in my opinion so I think if you want to actually do something good you need to still bring the art direction is just like film they have set designers, they have costume, wardrobe department, they have makeup, they have props. You still need to think of these things. You should design them and make them your own. Um, so that's that's I think what AI filmm is. So you need to go into the details and make those choices.

15:11And if you want to make something that truly stands out, you really need to tell a story. Um, and that's one of my favorite things about uh creating and that I can confirm that AI is actually not good at that. Sometimes I do ask it to to create something for me. It is absolute garbage. So, you really still need the human to feed even if you use AI as a tool to feed it the story, the logic. Um, anything I make still requires so much rewriting. I rewrite drafts. It it's it's still the same process. Um, and ultimately the writing and the story, the idea comes from me.

15:49And I like to put a lot of like my life, inspiration, things I've read, things I feel, POVs. These are the most amazing things you can ever put into your own artwork and that will make you stand out. And the second myth, um, oh sorry, one more thing. Um to make a good film, you also need to have a good vision with your with other aspects like editing, sound design. Um through learning film making, I've become so humbled at how difficult it is um to edit really well.

16:26How difficult it is to create really good sound in a film. I have so much appreciation for people who are experts. I work with VFX experts um all day and I have so much appreciation for them and their brain. Um so it's these it's it's these skills that are still really valuable in my opinion um that AI can't just do although it is getting easier and easier in some aspects to make to make videos. An example would be agentic models. Um, there's a lot of these new agentic models like Luma Uni one um that that do make making a film from start to end easier, but I've tested them and they still lack soul. I think you really

17:07need to still infuse humanity into the script and work back and forth with the agentic model. Um, so the second myth is that AI removes creativity. I actually think it amplifies your taste and your choices because you actually get more choice. You get more shots. If you think about it, a direct a normal director is um limited by budget, you know, locations. Maybe they only get six shots. You can do unlimited locations.

17:45Maybe you get 50 shots, but you still have to go through the action of choosing and knowing which one. Um, you still need to have that eye. I think if you want to do something good, you need to know what you're looking for, what what kind of performance you want, um, even from the AI.

18:02So as tools shorten the distance between idea, audience and iteration um you can also get quicker feedback from your audience. Um which is pretty amazing um in my opinion that you can actually in the past it might take 3 years, four years, 5 years longer to get your film made and by the time you wrote something all this time has passed. So this ability to iterate quickly and maybe you can get something onto YouTube and um and maybe people relate to it. Um that's it's all kind of amazing in that way.

18:38So as tech as technical barriers disappear, I think a filmmaker's greatest advantage is their ability to see the world differently and to express that through the vision of their film. So that to me is still the most human thing. So AI to me is still very much a tool. It's a means to create something.

19:02It's a means to create concept, but it is still human vision driving it that makes it shine at the end of the day. Third myth quickly. Making an AI film is easy. I can assure you I've been working on this feature film, this hybrid feature film with who's an Galado, Casey Affleck, Pete Davidson, nothing about what we're doing is straightforward. Even if it's full AI, even scenes that I'm doing that are full AI, nothing is straightforward. Keeping a consistent film is extremely challenging. In fact, I think in some ways it's more challenging um using AI.

19:43So, every day I'm problem solving with artists. I work with 3D artists. I work with compositors. Um, I work with experienced VFX artists. And we don't just press a button and it's done. We are literally all doing using different tools. We're solving different problems. We're trying to get the hair mat working with the weird light on top. Um, so there's all these problems we're always trying to solve. And I think what is helping my project is actually the people. It's it's the people more than the the AI tools. We are simply experimenting, but at the end of the day, we're the ones who are driving the output of the film.

20:29I had a quote um that was going to be on a slide. I was going to share with you guys. Thank you, paper. I was really lucky um to be at South by Southwest in Austin, Texas this year and I got to see Steven Spielberg um do a keynote there which is amazing. He's such a hero of mine and he spoke about um if filmmakers are truly able to be honest with themselves that we embed our subconscious into our work. Um, so that's very in line with some of the things I said um that really as makers, as artists, we are putting our subconscious and ourselves into our work. Um, and I found that to be it

21:15really resonated with me and just made me love what I'm trying to do more.

21:25>> All right. Um, so let's see. The next stuff might not work because I had something visual to show you which I can't now but that's okay. Um, that's okay. We can skip ahead. We can skip ahead. Um, okay. Next slide. The right way to approach AI film making. I asked the question, what can this medium do that nothing else can do?

21:57So when photography came out in the 1800s, early photographers were highly criticized. Painters who were the dominant artists at the time said, "Potography is cheap. You just press a button." Um, it's stupid. Such a dumb technology. Sounds really similar actually to what we're going through. Um, so at the time it was very illegitimate to be a photographer in the 1800s. In fact, photographers tried to stage their sets just like painters just to even be kind of in the ballpark respected. I guess they staged scenes, they use soft focus, they did portraits just like painters um manipulated paints. Um but some photographers argued that it should actually lean into the qualities that only they are good at.

22:47So, for example, photography can capture um it can be a still of a moving of motion. Um they can do aerial views, these crazy aerial views that a painter couldn't possibly have a setup to do. Um so, it wasn't really until they leaned into what they were meant to do that only they could do that I think photography really grew and became its own thing and not just a mimic of painting. So I think we're in this stage to really ask that question. What can AI filmm and art do that traditional art cannot? Um so I don't have all the answers. I have some answers or I have my version but I think I challenge

23:34everyone to ask themselves that if you do make films and art.

23:44So in so for myself um what I think only AI can do really well um that's very difficult is this physics-free continuity um so this is actually I think very technical and difficult normally um if we were to do this traditionally but AI can you go you could like start off in the in the universe and then um shoot right into a planet and go into molecular level and go into the earth and the dirt and there's there's some things that are just so impossible to visualize traditionally like I couldn't bring a set to to film that shot and the VFX might be too difficult. Um but AI can do that stuff pretty easy. Um, so sometimes

24:32I personally try to test out AI to do things that traditional film would just not be able to. That is too difficult, too expensive, and frankly maybe weird. So physics free continuity is one. The morphing subject is another. I'm sure you guys have seen that. That's very AI. um the morphing of say you could you could morph myself as a baby into my my current self um in a 15-second video. Um that is very unique to something that AI can do. Um things that are morphing and I think that's something also that's fun to lean into.

25:13All right. Um so the last part for me is the future of AI cinema. The first is AI integrated into tra traditional film and TV pipelines. We're seeing that already. Um it's this is just traditional shows and TV just with some AI integrated maybe into their post-production with VFX. Netflix actually revealed Netflix revealed that 300 titles um on their platform used generative AI in their process this year during post-production mostly for visual effects. So that's this that's this number one. The second is full hybrid film and TV contact content. That's the example I gave you. I'm the feature film I'm working on where we filmed actors for 20 days um on a set and we've now

26:07spending months and months to make the movie and make the environments um and do the crazy camera moves um post-prouction. So this is a full hybrid film and I think this is a part of the future of AI cinema and the last one is just brand new type of media which is um just fully AI film and TV. Tons of platforms are trying to do that right now just full generative AI films and movies for for consumption but also I think one of the best applications is to use it for concepts and trailers. So a lot of filmmakers are quickly testing their ideas and making a trailer just may and maybe to get funding maybe to test it out on the

26:54internet. Um, you can use AI still and try to film something traditionally. Nothing is stopping you um from using it as a means to to get the interest and funding you need. Um, there's a lot of filmmakers today who or there's a lot of indie filmmakers who have succeeded by by by creating and really carrying that spirit of creating on YouTube first.

27:17They got their audience on YouTube first, right? like Barry Barker um for example uh who who's been creating forever and brought his audience to the theaters. And that is kind of it from me.

27:41>> Thank you. >> We do have your film. >> We have your film. >> Okay. So, would you like to do Q&A first and then the film or? Yeah, >> let's do the film. >> Let's do the film first. Break it up.

28:07Heat. Heat.

28:57Oh my god. Oh my god. >> Keep pushing. We're trying to pull you out.

29:09>> I'm going to go get more help.

29:26There's nothing you can do but breathe slowly. Eyes closed. Cool. 5 4 3 2 1. Remember grandma 10 years old and working any job she could find.

30:06You can do one more minute.

30:15There's nothing to do now but breathe. It's so cold it hurts.

30:33I remember what it feels like to be warm. Sitting on the beach in Pasatano right now. That pizza place near the beach. It had so much cheese on it. That's where I'll go after this. Animals survive winters like this every year. There are things living down here. Tiny things.

31:19This is it.

31:26I spent the day with beautiful friends doing the best thing on earth.

31:37We can do one more minute.

32:13Well, that that was positively haunting. Beautiful. Um, would someone hit the second light switch from the top on the wall panel back there? All right. So, I imagine there's going to be some questions for Dorothy. Uh, who who's got something to Yep. >> Is that Ted? >> What's up, man? Nice to see you, dude.

32:35>> Always good to see you, Chris. >> Yeah, I guess. >> N man, for the live stream, bro. >> I appreciate it. Thanks, Chris Dory. Wonderful, wonderful talk. I'm uh honored to have the first question for you. But um so I've been kind of hacking away building myself um you know a bit of a creative more from the gaming side of things. Uh and what you mentioned about how you first started and how you start growing was through um building a public uh and sharing. So honestly I've been dragging my feet about that for a long long time. I've been wanting to do it but uh always just kind of not uh having that first step or thinking about

33:13how to you know present the stuff that I'm building. Um so love to just kind of learn about your process like you know what worked, what didn't. Uh was it just about sharing your content directly or it's about sharing your process? Um just love to kind of learn about how you got started with that.

33:30>> Yeah, it's good question. It's definitely not onesizefits-all. Um, but I can just share for myself um what I did and what was right for me. Um, for myself, I wasn't necessarily just trying to grow a following. I was just trying to get my work publicly um out in the public and to put my portfolio up and visibly. Um, I wasn't trying to get a million followers by doing very viral things. Um, so everyone's goals are different. So I would actually ask yourself um what's your goal? Are you trying to get noticed by a company? Are you trying to there's there's so many motivations. Um but for myself I knew that I just wanted to I'm

34:15trying to get into film making. So I should just make I should make high quality work. Um in that way um that actually kind of works against me sometimes cuz Instagram says we will not promote your reel because it's too long. So, so in that way sometimes I'm I'm like maybe I'm not the right person to even answer the social media question.

34:34But um if I were to give you advice from the very beginning, um I would say if you're so uncomfortable right now and you're still in the creating phase, I was I would sometimes just create and just tuck it away. Um the most important thing is to keep creating. Keep creating whether it's image or video. Um, but if you do start feeling more comfortable and you're more happy with maybe what you're doing, um, just put it on YouTube or Instagram, um, just get it out there.

35:04You can delete it later on if you don't like it. >> Um, you never know. Maybe people really like it. You don't even know, but it's very easy to just delete it. I totally resonate with the just keep creating part, but then you mentioned photo and video, but I thought that one of the things that carried your work was like the audio like the music and the effects and stuff was like pretty like it's a beautiful part of it all.

35:26>> Thank you. >> Is that Do you consider that part of your own practice and expression like >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Natasha's got a question over here. >> Yes. >> Oh my god, that was like mind blown. At first when I was watching it, I thought really AI and that was that good. And then there were a few things that AI does that just like it's like oh if you didn't do that this could be so cool. So I want to ask you how you deal with it.

35:54There was a scene where she's under the water and her mouth is going above the surface of the water. Under the surface, but she's breathing through her mouth and that's not possible. >> Yeah. >> How do you deal with that? Yeah, it's it's definitely a tough one. Um, so it's all about it's about your tolerance. So for myself, I was trying to do this for a certain competition and you have to make trade-offs as a filmmaker. I can keep working on this for another 6 months and nail every single little shot. It's just going to take me a longer time. Um, but it depends. Again, my goal is like I just want to get reasonably good content out

36:34there. This was for a competition so I had to do it. I had a limited amount of time. So sometimes I have to accept that something is not perfect. But I am a perfectionist and I'm actually learning to try to let go of certain small things. Um I think in the spirit of creating it's better to just do the thing and maybe it's not imperfect rather than spend like 10 years on it.

36:58>> Traier, you're up next after mage here. You can have a seat. I'll come to you in a second. >> I'll come to you in a second. >> Oh, yeah. Hey, uh, beautiful. Obviously, um, I was just wondering if you could talk a little bit about how you decided on a lot of the shots. Like I mean obviously the first part with the the skiing was was clear and obvious storytelling, but then you cut away to a lot of really interesting things like neurons building and um the fox was just inspired and there was so many different little aspects there. I was just wondering if you could talk a little bit about how um those things came to you,

37:38how much you experimented with that, how much uh editing you did to kind of like put something in, try it out, take it out, or and how you ended up with that whole thing. and and also how long did it take you given that like for me doing obviously the same sort of work that you do um I just felt like intimidated by the breadth of the um just the breadth of the content that you put in that all added towards the story. So can you tell me a bit about your process?

38:08>> Yes, that was a handful. I'm I'll do my best. Um so I start with writing. Um for me writing is the my foundation. Um I actually changed the concept three times before and I even started stuff and stopped it rewrote started stopped rewrote cuz it just wasn't working. So that's a part of my like painful process. Sometimes um what I what I wanted to say is just not translating at all even into film. So, a lot of time was actually wasted on on rewriting things that weren't working. Um, so when I when this script and this idea did work, um, it all just comes together.

38:49So, I actually write a proper screenplay. I do actually have I try to pretend pretend I'm like selling this thing. Um, I actually write it into a screenplay, which means I actually have the details on how I envision the shots. Um, what what what the voice over is, for example. Um, so specifically your question was about the montage when she's underwater. How I thought about um how I came up with those shots. Um, that part for me was actually easier than the the hardest part was actually the action shots and the water and the ice and the consistency. Um, those montage shots, that was the fun part for me where I was just all I was was dialed into the

39:30script. I knew what the lines were. So now all I have to do is read it and think about what is uh what's the spirit behind it. Um so for me I get into my characters. This is based on a real woman who actually survived kind of like this like trapped um skiing underwater 80 minutes. Her heart actually stopped.

39:51her heart stopped um for many hours and somehow she resuscitated um because the it's amazing our bodies but um her uh the it was so cold that her brain kind of just reduced its capacity need for energy and she somehow survived not breathing for hours. Amazing. Um so I was like what what would that be like if you knew you might die? um that you were just trapped underwater with your skis up there. Um what might that feel like?

40:24So while doing that, I came up with, oh, I would probably think about someone strong in my life. And she thinks about her grandma. I'd probably start trying to comfort myself. Um and maybe think about going to get pizza after. Um these are like my real thoughts. I was like, I'd probably um yeah, think about Pasatano, Italy. Um, so a lot of it actually just comes from my own um I'm trying to like empathize with the girl.

40:52>> Okay, there's a few more people who want to ask questions, but we are going to enter the lightning round now. >> Christopher Tatier, >> Alex. Who else has their hand up? Oh my god. Oh my god. All right, we're going to deal with this. We got Chris, >> you get one sentence. It has to be a question.

41:10>> Yeah. Great. and then please give like a 30 second at the maximum answer. We're going to try to get to the rest of these. Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, my question is um considering that AI generates so much slop, how do you get your good stuff into the hands of the gatekeepers because obviously you're working with really qualified pe people and talented people. How do you do that?

41:34>> Thank you. >> How do I get my good stuff it? um by creating by choosing not to post cheap stuff is probably my biggest strategy. Um >> I want to I want to interject even but like like the legitimacy level. So it's like if you're like yo I'm an AI film. How do you get past that? Oh, it must be sloppy slop Like how do you get people to even watch your thing?

41:54>> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like how the photographers >> You must know what I'm talking about that you say you're an AI filmmaker and people are like pew pew. Uh thank you very much. But like uh >> yeah. >> So you're a midterm. I don't I honestly don't have that many followers to be honest. I don't know that like there's like even that many people watching my stuff, but I honestly it was about posting like I think a lot of people like to take the strategy to post one thing a day and I take so long to make a post and it's anti the proper strategy but I have really chosen to only post

42:28stuff that I'm truly proud of and so somehow the right people have seen it at the right time. So after I posted like clinical comm like my agent reached out like within a day or two. How? I don't know. Somehow some someone saw it. >> Um you are a humble hero because I joked to you when I was working the barbecue earlier when I tell people you were speaking here tonight. They were like I wish I could fly from Toronto. So your following might not be that great on the numbers but like everybody's watching what you're doing.

43:01Your narrative section was visionary. It was great. Um, I'm also a filmmaker working on a hybrid project. Um, but what I wanted to ask you is how do you deal with the negative negativity and like the echo chamber for filmmakers right now because as a filmmaker that's really horrible and it needs to stop and hopefully it will stop.

43:20I honestly don't think I'm important enough to get this like hate online to be honest. And maybe I would feel differently if I got a lot of online hate. Um, for myself, I'm really proud of what I do because I don't I choose not to like put out cheap crap. So, I know if I'm proud of my own work um and that that I think it has a real story, that's that's my way of dealing with it.

43:44Um, so, so yeah, I don't I also maybe I just surround myself with other a filmmakers. I don't really feel it too hard. >> I'm right back here. >> Lightning round. >> Lightning round. Thank you so much, Dorothy. Uh, Stacy, I'm a director of communications at the University of the Fraser Valley. So, storytelling of course resonates. What stuck with me as you said earlier, some of the tools you use don't have a soul. This so obviously had so much soul in it. So can you quickly talk about very esoteric but where does soul come into that process for you because it obviously does but just curious about how you navigate that with all the criticism negativity AI is

44:23fake is not authentic not human where how does it all >> um const together >> I think I think I infuse soul in it first through the writing a lot of the time the writing um comes from sometimes an experience I've had it comes from maybe I saw a news story and I felt really strong about it so that's for me infusing soul even just the choice of topic and what what it's trying to say that's like the number one thing and then number two is how is the style I think style is like so personal and that that's like a really big choice that reveals your soul or or lack of or lack of choosing as well if you want to be

45:02super generic with no choice that's also you see that right so >> I got at least one more right here >> and then I'm going to come up Jimmy and then we're going to wrap it up and go to Dave Olson. >> No pressure whatsoever. Um, midjourney beta user. So, absolutely love when you brought that up. How far it's come is just remarkable. Uh, so are you using that for part of your film production or what type of AI model are you using for producing these films? And where do you see it going? cuz where it started it's just so crazy of how you can now influence the style of imagery you want it to produce and so what's how is it

45:43going to evolve from here >> I two questions >> you sure did >> uh I'll I'll answer in two parts personal work and um paid work um so for my personal work I use all tools because I like to experiment with everything I like midjourney um always to set style specifically for I think for animated style you can get really creative in midjourney at midjourneys though not so good for live action though um so so yes it's continues to be a tool for personal um usually uh I find in my professional work we don't really use midjourney um for one reason or another that's not even my choice it's like the producers um but sorry was did that answer your

46:29question >> film like >> just your top to right now of the- moment tools. >> Of the moment tools um definitely sea dance, but that can be done through many places. >> You the happy horse. >> Happy horse. Um no, I have >> there's a new Alibaba model that I've been messing with this kind of interesting. So, okay. So, sea dance and what else?

46:49>> Yeah, definitely sea dance and cling 01 the cling omni because it you can infuse more you can infuse human performance and do a lot more weird things. >> I got one more right here from this guy Nash. >> Yeah. Uh great great film. It resonates with me because I live in the Arctic and I've heard these stories live and I see a lot of value in these stories being told because search and rescue and sharing what to do in these situations is phenomenal. What I wanted to understand is how do you get a lot of experts to you know come together to bring that together because when you're talking to someone interviewing they're telling you their experience but then

47:26now to translate that there is my vision there's their vision and there's a lot of you know experts you kind of have to bring around to bring that richness and for it to translate that soul. Just wanted to know how you get those experts around you. Can I make sure I understand the question? Um, how how I get the right people to watch my film?

47:47>> Well, no, no, not the right people, not the audience. I'm the the team that you're working with for them to really curate that together. >> Uh, you know, there's a lot of people, I would imagine, sound, like you said, visuals and all that sort of stuff. How do you source that? How do you find the right people to come for that project to actually bring it to life?

48:06>> Completely depends on the size of project. So, the project I'm working on, um, I'm I'm a creative lead on the team and all the hiring choices are made by our executive producer. So, that's not actually one of my choices. Um, but in smaller projects that um I I take on, for example, if I get hired to make a short film and I have a budget, um, I can make my choices on say a sound a sound designer or anyone that I want to help me. So, usually it'll be within my network. Um, and and yeah, I don't know.

48:37Does that answer your question? >> We might talk more. >> Okay. >> Have you ever wondered what it was like to go up on stage and like have your keynote not freaking be there? >> I'm just like you passed the test. You passed the test, guys. >> Me and you even had that chat. You're like, we talked about the confidence monitor. I'm like, ah, sometimes it's sketchy. I would just recommend paper, but I wasn't even thinking about that when that >> Yeah.

49:02>> How about Dorothy Pang? Thank you very Thank you very much.